Catherine Bennett’s journey, shared on the “Scroll Sessions” podcast, is an inspiring tale of balancing a thriving career, creative pursuits, and family life. Hosted by Dan Page and Shane Hickenlooper, this episode delves into Catherine’s experiences and insights, making it a must-read for anyone navigating similar paths.
Early Career and Transition into Marketing
Catherine began her career with a focus on journalism and English, driven by her natural flair for writing. Despite the challenges of the print journalism industry, she found her way into corporate marketing, where her skills in communication and project management shone through. Her ability to adapt and apply her writing skills in a new domain highlights the versatility and transferability of core skills across different career paths.
The Launch of Backpack Marketing
As a response to the challenges of balancing work and family life, Catherine founded Backpack Marketing. The venture was more than just a business; it was a platform that offered flexibility during early motherhood. It also became a testing ground for her to refine her skills and understand her professional preferences and strengths.
Insights on Leadership and Entrepreneurship
Catherine’s experience as a business owner taught her valuable lessons about her leadership style. She discovered that while she might not be the archetypal ‘Trailblazer’ entrepreneur, her skills as a facilitator and executor are equally critical in driving a business forward. This realization speaks volumes about understanding and embracing one’s unique strengths in any professional endeavor.
Transitioning to a Director Role and Current Challenges
Currently, as a marketing director at Impact Utah, Catherine is applying her broad spectrum of skills to rebuild and strategize the company’s marketing efforts. She emphasizes the importance of a clear, concise brand message and offer, understanding the target audience, and ensuring the website and marketing materials reflect the company’s core value propositions.
Advice for Aspiring Marketers and Directors
For those aiming to break into marketing or leadership roles, Catherine advises starting with a specialization and gradually expanding one’s skillset. Understanding the interconnectedness of various marketing aspects and aligning them with the company’s objectives is crucial. She also stresses the importance of self-awareness in recognizing one’s unique leadership style and strengths.
Concluding Thoughts
Catherine Bennett’s story is a testament to the power of adaptability, self-awareness, and the courage to embrace change. Her journey from journalism to corporate marketing, entrepreneurship, and a leadership role offers valuable lessons for anyone navigating their career path, especially those juggling multiple roles in their personal and professional lives.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/catherinebennettmpc/
https://www.backpackmarketing.com/
0:01
[Music]
0:06
my name is Katherine Bennett and this is scroll sessions Katherine it’s so good to have you on the podcast today I have
0:13
been waiting for this day it has been a long time after quite the mess up for our first setup and thank you for the
0:20
patience we’re we’re glad to have you here today so you you are you’re a working mom of three right I am and
0:27
you’re the current marketing director at impact Utah yep and then you also do backpack
0:33
marketing right yes that was that’s been yep a thing for sure it’s been a thing well cool well tell us a little bit
0:40
about yourself and like why where like where you are today how you kind of got to where you’re at give us the
0:46
background it’s a twisty a twisty path for sure um I started actually like a journalism in English major I knew from
0:53
the time I was little I was like uh Utah State okay go so I group in Reno and I
1:00
knew when I was younger that I like writing came really naturally to me I was in like programs people put me into
1:06
programs because they were like oh this is a little bit better than like other kids your age so I would spend Fridays
1:13
writing like with some other geeky kids I love that that’s awesome um but I was like what do I do with this right I have
1:19
no clue what to do you know every every road from here leads to poverty in writing in writing but it’s
1:27
such a good skill though it’s such a good skill just had no clue where what to do with it so I I you know went to
1:34
Utah State um was like well we’ll just dual major then because I don’t know what I’m doing print journalism it was
1:40
dying a very pain you know it’s it’s still slow I’m like how are newspapers even a thing at all um but I was like
1:49
we’re going to go all in I’m going to do the newspaper thing in college my senior year I was the editor-in chief of the newspaper and I was doing English like
1:57
writing these giant non-fiction essays and yeah and I graduated and I was like well shoot that was fun but what do we
2:03
do what do we do now um and I was like don’t not doing journalism I was like I’m not the bad guy like I’m not that
2:10
person I don’t need to establish justice like I had people in college uh there
2:15
was a lady that that called me and was like you ruined my son’s life like by because he stole $110,000 worth of like
2:24
textbooks or something and she was like and I’m like well I don’t want like I don’t need that WR an article on it yeah
2:31
I mean yeah yeah I wrote a lot of Articles like that that you know and I won awards for some of them and stuff
2:37
but it was ballsy like journalists are ballsy and they’re kind of like no you deserve there’s just a certain
2:43
personality I’m like I’m like I kind of I’m between this like I love to talk to people and interview people I love the
2:49
stories but I also love um like the teaching so I was like maybe I’ll just
2:54
keep going to school and I’ll be an English Professor maybe that’s that’s the route and i s i some how one day was
3:01
just looking at job postings and I was like oh like a Communications manager had no clue what that meant I still
3:06
don’t understand what that means I don’t think anyone does it’s like the most Broad and it’s the most uh it’s like the
3:13
biggest more or less thing you can take in college now it’s like the most enrolled students at most colleges are
3:19
communication major job for communication manager so what it actually was was a marketing communication so I ended up in a
3:25
corporate corporate marketing team doing all the market email Market hting uh
3:31
blogs events I was like doing all the presentations for the CEOs when they were tra like traveling uh so I got to
3:38
travel to Europe and stuff it was like wow it found me like this is it like
3:43
where in Europe did you go um I’ve been to a couple places but that job specifically I went to Barcelona and
3:49
Rome how Co that that’s awesome writing English especially I was on a marketing
3:55
yeah yeah I sold myself as you know I was an English major and but this
4:00
newspaper gig I had I sold myself in marketing because I was like I’m really good with people like I’m really good
4:07
with people I’m a really solid writer I’m really like have really you know attention to details there I had all the
4:13
whole skill set that you need to excel in like a marketing department yeah but except for like data you know like the
4:20
stuff you learn in business school yeah I that was but but my job didn’t really
4:25
need that I just need to be like oh are people looking at this okay well if we’re not let’s cut it you know so it was kind of an intro to to that she had
4:32
all the solid intangible stuff that’s super important and I was a wicked project manager I was just I was I I
4:40
didn’t let stuff fall the craps yeah like I like nothing fell through the cracks and I just yeah so so who was
4:47
this company it’s a what we love them so much it was an MLM
4:54
but but it was such a cool and good experience and my team was really awesome like they were really really
4:59
cool people so um yeah but from there I
5:05
I started I was having trouble having kids it was not happening easily for me and a couple years in um kind of
5:12
abandoned ship on that and started to go to grad school I was like I got to focus on something else this is eating me up
5:17
and I two months in got pregnant I was like of course I guess we’re doing grad school then yeah um but through that
5:24
it’s just messy right like you’re trying to adjust a Parenthood and uh you know
5:30
had grad school and it just and I had a full-time job and and really like the
5:35
corporate role just felt like kind of like spat me out was like did you always want to be a full-time uh like careerist
5:44
no I kind of was just riding the waves honestly but it’s one of those things where the more it unfolded I was like
5:50
yeah this is me you know it felt I grew up with a mom that was at home with the five kids and she was awesome she’s such
5:56
a smart lady she’s such a cool lady um so like you know you know right so I I
6:02
wasn’t really sure like what it’s not I don’t think until you have kids that you really can know that for yourself some
6:08
people dream of that their whole life I don’t know that I’ve ever been like oh I want to work with kids like I love kids I love my kids and I love other people’s
6:15
kids but I’m like I look at my nannies and I’m like wow you are I’m not I’m not
6:20
like you you know you’re coming up with all these crazy ideas and they’re so great and they like love being there
6:26
with them and like watching them and and that that necessarily isn’t me I love my kids are amazing but um the more I got
6:33
into my career I’m like this is part of me like this is how can I give up these talents that I’ve I have like innately
6:41
that are you like just so well implemented in this way yeah totally and just be like no I’m walking away from
6:46
that because like they’re integral to me I think especially in in in Utah it like
6:52
if you grew up here it’s kind of like it’s like innate in our culture right to have women more or less stay home so
7:00
like what like what’s your I guess what’s your opinion on that and how where do you feel like you fit there
7:05
yeah I’ve had some interesting conversations even lately where like I had a conversation with my grandpa my my
7:10
grandfather a couple weeks ago and he was kind of like I just don’t know how you do it because what you know it’s
7:15
like cuz they’re not used to it yeah it’s like what are we miss you know what are we missing here maybe or you know
7:21
can you really you know I guess from like a religious standpoint how does that you know what I think that was his
7:28
question like how is this possible Right like and it just is right like you just
7:34
give you let go of stuff that might seem like it matters and doesn’t really matter like yeah I always have dishes in
7:40
my sink you know like just I always I I get just say hey that’s not a priority
7:46
and we’re not doing that or you know so I think that’s so well honestly I feel like that’s so real life like I feel
7:52
like there there’s a lot of propped upness and per perfectness especially
7:58
amongst mothers especially here for whatever reason right I mean we I think we all have
8:05
ideas about why that is but I think uh I’m I’m glad you’re so like open about
8:10
it because I think a lot of people aren’t and then they like you know Harbor it or hold it and then have regrets later yeah and to be fair I had
8:17
a good my business backpack was my cushion it was like my transition period where I could really I had the time and
8:24
the kind of fle I won’t say flexibility but to to Really test that out and so I
8:30
had the I I started that so I could have the flexibility as I was you know bringing kids into the world and um you
8:38
know it was honestly like it comes with its own hardships right like owning a business is rough business like it’s
8:44
rough stuff and so you you kind of just take you got to pick and choose right
8:50
like so I I chose okay I’m I’m figuring out motherhood I want this is the chunk
8:55
of hours I want with my kids I want them first thing in the morning then I’m I’ll stay up till 1: a.m. like I’ll do that
9:00
cuz I want to they’re they’re little I got a 2-year-old and a newborn at one point and I was starting my business and
9:05
I was the only income it was it was Heavy it was really heavy oh my gosh but
9:10
um yeah I just I guess I just learned through that like I can I can do a lot
9:16
like I’m pretty tough I can work really hard um but yeah that my business was
9:22
this transition where now I’m like I’m okay like I have three kids I’m they’re okay like they’re good I needed like to
9:28
warm up to it it wasn’t just like we’re good like I had to test it out and so my business gave me that what are your
9:34
kids’ ages um six four and one okay oh nice so the two are pretty close
9:40
together that was the the real difficult yeah they’re like a little over two years and so my husband he was super
9:45
unhappy in his career path um he worked at Hill in finance so he’s a really smart guy so I think one of my best
9:51
friends does that no way but he’s moving to Germany he got sick of it here now he’s doing itman I think B husband had a
9:58
friend that did that too uh in Germany too but he just you know
10:03
it kind of boxes you in how you think when you do government jobs it’s like this is the task you can’t go outside of
10:09
that and he’s like I mean he’s a problemsolving guy so he went and he was really unhappy and so I was like well I
10:15
got this business thing I’m trying like let’s see how it goes and so there was actually this really cool co-working
10:21
space it was only open for a year but it was for moms specifically there was like a little daycare in it and it failed
10:28
like there weren’t enough people that used it but I got to use it and it we got to start that back up yeah it’s
10:33
pretty cool so cool it iny cool no it was in it was right above like caputos
10:39
in Salt Lake in Salt Lake was like right by 400 so it saved me because I I didn’t
10:45
we couldn’t afford child care I I had to bring money in and so I would just I I
10:51
paid like you know it was like a stretch I was like I think I paid paid like $1,700 for like my first business coach
10:58
or something thing to help me get my head on straight and that felt like so much right and now it’s like that is
11:05
like pennies well as far as business coaches go you know um but it was a huge
11:11
stretch for me like it it hurt me and then I paid I think like 2,000 to have
11:17
access to this co-working space for the whole year and that hurt me too it just felt you know the risks the the early
11:22
risks right like you guys know totally um and but it was it was everything that I could take this three-month-old and
11:29
you know two and a half-year-old with me and they were always with me and I could build this business with them like on
11:34
your own under yeah that’s massive I know there’s some like there’s some places in Utah County that do build that
11:40
in I think qual Trix and I think Podium both have programs like that to watch kids amazing which is so great um you
11:47
know what speaking of business expenses we when we first started our company we bought a couch from Smith’s Marketplace
11:55
that we that we still have Smith Market that we still have we literally had like it was like 8 or 900 bucks in our
12:00
account or something like that we literally spent more than half of what we had on thatou couch you guys loved
12:06
that I don’t know why we bought it but it’s sitting in my office today as a reminder of like yeah things are it’s
12:12
like the Dollar on the wall right yeah it was a big stretch to be like okay I’m spending money that like my business
12:18
made on something and then I don’t have enough for our rent so luckily we landed a client in the time you know like all
12:24
the risk you take um it’s it’s incredible I wanted to ask too about
12:29
your husband and you because you’re both working in careers now yeah right so um
12:35
part of the balance that I think a lot of people don’t consider when they ask you questions of like how do you work
12:41
full-time and you’re a mom you’re like well I also have a husband that is a dad
12:47
right like and he helps raise the kids too um so how’s that uh how’s that
12:54
balance how’s that uh structured with you guys because you both work a
12:59
full-time job I’m assuming it’s like you both work at 9 to5 and come home and how are you strategizing who’s doing the
13:06
dishes and who’s putting the kids down and who’s waking the kids up no there really is how am I G to say like true
13:12
Equity but we really it’s like if someone’s not doing it they’re just not like I’ve just said I think there was a
13:18
point in our marriage I’m like dinner’s not happening so you like I don’t know I don’t care what happens but I I
13:24
literally cannot do it do it you know and so in those moments where it’s like well I support you and you support me
13:30
and like we know we’re like I know you’re awesome you know I’m awesome I want the best in like your career and
13:35
your life and and so we would just see where that like it would lean to one side and we’ll kind of compensate and so
13:42
right now actually my husband went back to school again to get MBA oh W so it’s uh yeah I’m and I’m off like on Tuesday
13:51
from 4 on like when our Nanny leaves and and like it’s been tough like it’s it’s
13:56
difficult right because you’re but you just kind of know what you’re getting into you expect it and then and you got
14:02
support you got the nanny and you got we got help during the day and uh you know
14:07
it it it all balances out because it’s like I I think we just check in it’s it’s just the check-ins yeah um and and
14:15
asking like just being clear we’ve had to get real solid on our calendar lately
14:20
before it was like wait this thing’s on the family calendar it’s on your work calendar and I don’t know what’s going on so I’ve had that plenty with my life
14:28
well that’s that’s awesome my wife created a new calendar yeah that I just she’s like I know you live by Google
14:34
calendar so I just created a new one and put it all on that what a lady awesome that’s awesome well I I love what you
14:41
said about like equity and their relationships because I feel like I I think it’s bne brown she she says like
14:47
marriage is not 50/50 like said like that that is that is like basically she says like that’s BS what it is is like
14:54
some days you’re a 20 and the other person’s an 80 and sometimes it’s days sometimes it’s weeks and months
15:00
sometimes it’s even years and then it switches or vice versa but like marriage is like 100% especially when you’ve got
15:07
two you know you know full-time either working individuals you got two like in my case both my wife and I are like
15:13
entrepreneurs we both have our own businesses plus the kids so it’s like you just have to some days you got to do
15:19
it you just got to do what you got to do you know especially if you’re committed to that relationship though you know if you’re committed if if you got married
15:26
and you want to stick through it like it’s about making sacrifices about you know making it work so so tell us about
15:34
backpack marketing and how it started cuz first of all I love the name backpack marketing my brother came to me
15:40
once he’s like dude I have an idea and the idea is business in a backpack and
15:46
this was years ago he was like I want to come up with a program that pretty much makes it so that you can carry your
15:52
business anywhere in a backpack dude that was very similar to my my brain well it’s that and I love being outside
15:59
like hiking is my favorite thing to do and before I had kids I backpacked a lot like I would take my like friends that
16:05
had never been backpacking like up in the weekends and Scar them for the rest of their life terrify them take them
16:11
like like this is a slight tangent but I I took a friend one weekend up we just
16:17
hiked Lake blanch it’s not a huge you know it’s it’s an awesome like you want to pretend you’re backpacking and like
16:22
go up there and P a tent and maybe see a moose yes saw moose totally saw moose
16:28
and anyway she we woke up in the middle of the night to a helicopter like hovering over our tent like blowing the
16:35
tent like you know and she was like what is happening and this helicopter did not
16:41
see us it was search and rescue and they were literally like lowering down on our
16:46
tent and this guy that’s on the ground is like kind of helping guide the you
16:51
know he’s got these you yeah he’s trying to guide this um this helicopter to
16:57
where these people are and doesn’t see us and then suddenly the light shines on our tent and he’s like get out of the
17:04
tent he’s screaming it was W so I’ve truly scarred some people that’s awesome
17:10
though oh my God and Lake blanch is gorgeous yeah it was it was amazing she now I’m like you you loved it
17:17
yeah but um just had so many good experiences backpacking back with my dad growing up I was a backpacking guide
17:25
after my freshman year of college for like little kids oh my gosh that would
17:30
be so fun be super it was I mean yeah I guess it depends on what they’d be miserable yeah they were miserable I and
17:37
so I was kind of miserable I did a backpacking trip with all my cousins and Uncle and he my uncle who guided us
17:43
through the Highline Trail probably felt like he was just you know managing a bunch of little kids cuz it was a lot of
17:50
our is it 100 miles yeah yeah it’s 100 miles but it was like seven days but
17:55
yeah what’s your what’s your favorite High care locally you like to do often and then what’s like your fa like your
18:00
favorite you’ve ever done oo man ever that’s a even not even outside of Utah
18:06
that’s a really tough one and don’t worry it can change later on we’re not holding you I know I’ll just say for
18:12
both for both I really love the hiking Ben lman in the fall oh I love Ben lman
18:18
in the fall is actually so Ben lman is beautiful once you hit the saddle it’s so good it just is a whole new world you
18:25
run that you used to run that quite often beautiful yeah I love and I just it’s close I love how like you know we
18:31
just have some really sweet hikes that are close to we need to not tell people where Ben lomman is though it’s not I
18:36
made it up yeah made the other Ben oh and where is that like Scotland
18:42
Scotland or something yeah that one there’s not one one did yes um but yeah
18:48
I I was really trying to think of a name that resonated with me that you can live with right that you can be like yeah
18:54
that’s cool I I can dig that and I can like for me like brand is a is brand
18:59
strategy and brand messaging is kind of like my bread and butter and so I really wanted to be able to speak to the story
19:06
and have it be meaningful and I think with a lot of agencies like you guys have a sweet brand but there’s a lot
19:11
that just gets so lost you know they just it’s like oh yeah another gu some you know and so I was
19:19
like I want M to be like Oh weird backpack what does it mean like why and um the the brand even just like the
19:26
visual identity is a little bit different I don’t know the color scheme’s a little like unexpected in
19:33
some ways and so I really wanted something that I can just make my own you know and and really build a brand
19:40
around that so that’s cool and what like going from backpack now to like a career
19:46
as like a marketing director H how and why make that transition yeah that was a tough one I
19:52
actually did not look I was not looking for a job it was a client that I was kind of like dating for for like 5
19:58
months we’d get in a call and something was going on they were merging with a company or purchasing a company all the
20:05
stuff was going on and eventually he just said you know what I gotta hire someone I the guy we have is is it’s not
20:12
working out and so I need to hire somebody um and so I said okay sounds
20:17
great here’s a couple names um and I said but in the meantime
20:22
I you know I know you’re hiring me for web copy like I do a lot of web copy but
20:28
um this is kind of the scope of like what so if you need someone to fill in or just you know just some tasks or help
20:35
with strategy whatever I’m happy to do that like more fractional CMO work he was like actually let’s go to lunch so
20:42
um that’s how it always happens that’s how that’s how we started this all lunch man Ste yeah it was stealthy but the
20:48
thing that was interesting about it is you just can’t really just never know like the turns that are like where
20:54
life’s going to take you and when you feel that intuition yeah because I kept crap bumping against the ceiling in my
21:00
business where I could not let go like I I’m fully I’m like I know what I’m supposed to do to grow this and I can’t
21:07
let go because I’m not done learning like I felt like I was I either needed to get someone on the team who would
21:14
drive business development but like I would you know when I I’m sure you guys are the same when I am there to close a
21:20
deal it closes when someone else does they don’t have that like founder juice yeah they don’t yeah they just don’t
21:26
have the passion and it’s you can’t expect somebody else to have the same passion you just can’t like
21:32
it’s not everybody has that you know totally and I found some amazing people I had some awesome people on my team and
21:38
they were willing too and I just think because iay though too yeah that’s scary
21:44
yeah yes well when uh I started my business when I was 26 so I was I was
21:49
kind of a rookie I was like well I know I’m good at these things and so if you were rookie we were we were newborns
21:57
then I was like I um I’m G to lean into what I’m good at and I’m gonna you know see
22:04
how it goes and it just kept like I kept just I think you do a good job you get more work you do a good job you get more
22:10
work and so then I’d have people comeing like I had a criminal defense attorney reach out and say hey we need this like
22:17
we need SEO I’m like yep I know all about that you know we and we’ve been there yeah totally you’re like yes the
22:24
answer is yes and I’ll figure it out and so everything I’ve learned has just been by saying yes saying yes how did you find your first customers so it was it
22:31
was a gift it was like I was uh the corporate world was not working for me it was like pre OB it was 2016 so okay
22:40
there was it was like your butts in a seat you know you’re in an office or you know if we you do part-time you can only
22:46
make this much an hour like I was suddenly de like my value had gone down for no Reon you know just because of
22:52
corporate policies so um I had someone who I worked with at that company who would left and said hey there’s a
22:59
startup and they need a marketing director you’d be awesome for it so I started my business with one solid
23:05
ongoing client and that that quickly turned into solid so I had this cushion that like you know made it feel a little
23:12
less scary yeah for sure um and yeah just kept it was a honestly a lot of
23:18
Word of Mouth for like the first year because I had enough to survive and get me keep going through like early
23:23
motherhood and stuff um and then I would just kind of you know just little time
23:29
yeah few customers here and there so your business was the business that I
23:34
was terrified to start because I worked at ksl.com and I saw a rep lose his one
23:42
big customer and he was like I have to like change my whole life my wife is GNA
23:47
have to change her budget all these things and uh I thought to Smart by the
23:54
way yeah yeah and I thought to myself I was like I don’t want to just get a big customer cuz if I do that I’m terrified
24:00
they’ll cancel so we built our business on the mindset of like small retainers and lot them was good but also bad
24:08
because we when you are a small retainer agency like the hardest payment to get is $500 a month you know you’re like
24:14
following up with your customer hey are you going to pay your invoice are you going to pay your invoice for 500 bucks where your $40,000 a month customer is
24:22
like hey Bill me thanks bye and so it’s an interesting dichot me of like what
24:29
kind of business do you want to start and did you have those fears cuz you were in early motherhood you had two customers at the time but they were
24:36
definitely covering what you needed I think I was too naive to like really think about it honestly because I knew
24:41
that they these this company like needed my help to get because they were brand new so and they had funding and so um I
24:50
I guess I didn’t think about it for like a year and then because I was honestly that that settled and it was that good
24:56
but um I did like they ended up not working out a couple years in and so yeah that was
25:04
like okay but by that point I had enough built up so I I should have thought
25:09
about it I definitely should have but somehow man the universe just delivered
25:15
for sure when I needed it it does I think have you ever read the book The Alchemist yeah the good one uh and how
25:21
it talks about pretty much as long as you’re giving your best effort like the universe finds ways
25:28
it’s so true though too like so true it feels that way it’s felt that way in my life it seems like it’s been that way in
25:33
so the others yeah and so transitioning into this new role I sat down to lunch with this guy and I had been like man I
25:40
just I feel like I had fomo on like my marketing career that could have been I was like I want to get into a CRM like
25:47
just get my hands in there you yeah just tear apart the data I I like there’s and
25:53
even just weird things like um because I’d been so pigeonholed into which which is great like brand website copy
26:00
messaging anything that touches that that space that the data like I was just lacking and I I was like I know like how
26:08
important this is and I’m I’m getting help when it’s needed for that stuff but I’m hungry for it and so it made me realize like I’m a marketing director
26:15
like I’m a project managing I want to piece this all together but I have this
26:21
really solid foundation of messaging and which really drives everything like for
26:26
that my persp perspective is if you’re not saying the right things to the right people if it’s not resonating if it’s
26:32
not hitting the right pain points like what are you doing feel like it’s the found it is the foundation of everything
26:37
we just at silk and slps I don’t know if you went or attended that’s all right well like Gary
26:44
ve he he spoke Gary bchuk spoke and one of his quotes was he’s like commun
26:50
basically communication is everything basically and it’s the foundation of everything and that starts with written
26:56
and spoken right right and it’s amazing to me how many times I’ve seen if you can find someone who can write in a
27:02
voice that people like to read yeah it change it’s like oh suddenly I like you
27:08
suddenly we can talk you know but if it’s if it if you don’t if you can’t feel that like the Cadence and the
27:14
rhythm of like how you actually talk to a person they’re out they’re like oh this is this is like kind of cold this
27:20
is you know and so I’ve tested both like to see the difference if I write some or
27:25
even and that’s why I’m like I’m I’m a tough chat GPT critic and AI critic I really we need talk
27:35
about we were talking about Ai and uh you said you’re a big critic of chat GPT
27:43
I’m a big fan of chat I know we probably probably have different skill sets very
27:49
huge fan of it um I’m also I I will say I’m a fan to a point right like I use it
27:54
it’s an incredible like search engine like goodbye Google like I it’s not Google’s you know to Elementary now
28:00
because chat GPT I can get lists of the stuff I’m looking for right MH um however there’s like this you know I’m
28:07
trying to think of my own podcast name right now right and so I’m like man I just want to like brainstorm like I get
28:13
throw some stuff at me all of it was absolute trash you know like right and
28:18
that’s what you expect um so it’s still I think it it’s an amazing tool I love
28:24
it but I do there are a couple people that I’ve had lot of interactions with and back and forth with who it’s like
28:30
that’s the end all like the thing that I’m going to use is the output that I get from chat GPT so they keep I’m like
28:36
oh no oh that is the like the productivity there is not I mean it’s not there and it’s obvious yes right and
28:43
so it’s like well you just got to keep training it you just got to keep feeding it and and shaping it and I’m like that
28:49
takes me 10 times as long right right so I think still if you have a good someone
28:54
who’s a solid uh writer or you know whatever you’re creating you have someone who’s solid at the skill and
29:00
they can look at it and say this is good or this is not good then it’s it’s amazing but to just take it at face
29:07
value oh and of course we’re not taking it at face value but even to try to coach it up it’s it’s like an efficiency issue for me yeah well I think also
29:15
websites we build a lot of websites and people will be like I really like this website and we ask why and they can’t
29:22
explain it when at the end of the day it’s the voice it’s the messaging from the and they don’t understand that or
29:29
it’s the photos or it’s the video on the site right but like voice on a site can
29:35
mean so much compared to if you just threw up chat GPT content on a site and
29:41
for example I just built a website last night with an AI Builder where you put in information and it’ll build you the
29:46
website it’ll put in written content but it’s not going to give you brand identity it’s not going to make you
29:53
unique you have to go in and manually do those things 100% and uh I think yeah that messaging and voice play such a big
30:01
role in why people engage well I I feel like chat gbt definitely for people that
30:08
I feel like utilize it hopefully it it it speeds things up but at the bare
30:14
minimum I think a lot we’ve noticed at least with like us personally and with
30:19
other people that are like using it heavily it’s taking like people that were more or less maybe had other kind
30:25
of skills were mediocre at one thing and it helps help them more or less come up
30:30
to more or less the standard level right and then for anyone past the standard level if you’re an expert hopefully it
30:37
helps make you faster if it’s making you if it’s if it’s moving slower for you then you know you probably got a problem
30:44
right it and I think it’s it’s probably it’s a unique like situation for me because 90% of people will use chat TPT
30:51
and be like this is change like cover letter done 5 Seconds you know like um
30:56
having the bones of that thing so you’re not just sitting there staring at a blank screen that’s everything and I
31:01
love that I love that for people I think it’s just for my par like in my skill coper I’m like yeah you are a writer
31:09
that’s and so I’ve had like you people have told me like hey you should be
31:14
using this or like you know I’m like I get that like and I will but to a point like you have to there’s this intuition
31:22
that we have as human beings that AI can’t replicate and and physic I can’t
31:28
replicate I would let I know there’s going to be more iterations where’re it’s we’re in the baby stages it’ll just
31:34
become more and more complicated and advanced I will love to see it I like I will love to see that but even when it’s
31:40
at its most like the height or I guess it’ll never be at its height but it’ll just keep developing and developing that
31:47
humans just have something that you know that empathy and to know in that moment I’m talking to you what you need to hear
31:53
from me that’s just an unspoken thing that I am curious to see how AI like figures
32:00
that out so I’m not saying it’s not possible I’m just I’m fascinated the thing that makes us human right like
32:06
honestly innately human like the reason why we’re we’re different from more or less Apes per se is the fact that we
32:14
actually like can create and have that like imagination and th those things
32:20
that more less uh you know other beings don’t have totally right but what people
32:25
don’t know is this entire podcast is actually just AI I’m not here the whole thing is AI
32:32
this is all fake no um yeah I think the uh my thought is I wouldn’t take therapy
32:39
through chat PT right I wouldn’t want chat PT to be my therapist and give me feedback why because I need empathy I
32:46
need emotion I need quality feedback from someone who understands who’s yeah yeah who’s actual experience and I also
32:53
wouldn’t let chat GPT diagnose me like or with a disease I might let it write
33:00
like a law agreement sure 100% but I wouldn’t 100% but we have a Content
33:06
writer and we write a lot of blogs and um we use chat GPT not to write our
33:13
blogs but to get basis points to then expand and it saves our content writer a
33:19
ton of time to be able to get those basis points and then expand brilliant I actually I have a hobby job at night I
33:27
write for an e-commerce brand that is like a really cool it’s like a boun really awesome bounce house they’re
33:33
beautiful bounce houses really oh I’ve seen these these are like yeah the like high quality highend bounce houses yeah
33:40
um and so it’s so I couldn’t give it up I’m like it’s too fun it’s so it’s so me like it’s my the phase of life I’m in I
33:48
I have that voice like I can talk to that person so well and so I’ve definitely like I’ll start the blog in
33:54
some I mean depending in chat GPT just get my brain going and I’ll try to see if I can use anything that’s in there
34:01
and I’m like man if a friend like one of my friends said that to me I would be like excuse me that just doesn’t sound
34:08
right that’s giving me an ick for sure and so to be able to gauge that and say that’s not something you say nor in
34:14
normally like maybe in theory like I I can understand it but that’s like a weird thing to say you know especially
34:22
in a voice that’s like it’s like kind of a there’s like a sweetness to it and but like empathy you know how moms a mom
34:29
would like talk to another mom trying to help out sometimes I feel like chat GPT gets lazy too like I think AI will
34:35
slowly get lazy it’ll be like I don’t want to fully compete this well and the yeah the problem is there’s only so much
34:42
so much information it currently has right like I know there was a ton of examples of people using it to write
34:49
more or less uh like whether it be contracts or whether it be like uh like something law abiding yeah yeah whatever
34:55
it is and it was referenced case law that didn’t even exist so like some of that stuff’s like super Mission critical
35:02
right you got to make sure that it’s actually like accurate and so I I think always you know I think it’s always
35:08
going to need a a human element of of checking before on that that same note
35:14
like my marketing team is two people right now so I am all right like I am
35:20
all about efficiency so if it’s truly efficient for the goal in mind like I’m
35:26
I’m there so I’m not being critical also cuz I’ve had be like ah like you’re just stuck in your ways I’m like no I swear
35:33
to you I want really trying want my life to be easier yes yeah I don’t want it to be harder I’m not trying to make my life
35:39
harder but so with two people on your marketing team Katherine like how um you
35:45
we had mentioned earlier like building a marketing team more or less from scratch building all these processes all these
35:52
more or less the strategy from a data and design perspective what does that
35:57
look like building it from nothing yeah it’s interesting and I’m actually really
36:02
lucky with this job because um it’s I got get to draw on my experience from my
36:08
own Consulting business because what this impact Utah is a Consulting business specifically for manufacturers
36:15
and so what kind of Manufacturers any anything and any if you make a product
36:22
in Utah and now they’ve expanded it so it’s actually a nonprofit so we do they
36:27
get they get paid or we get paid for our services but we can’t like can’t profit but we get grants from the state to help
36:35
these companies um every state actually has a center called the MEP it’s a manufacturing extension partnership and
36:42
the Department of Commerce gives those centers money so that you can help distribute the manufacturers can okay
36:49
get support So how do you market for a business like that and you said before this you said you walked in to like
36:56
nothing right there’s nothing there no data yeah I think it was cuz the focus was well we’re creating brand awareness and I’m
37:03
like well that’s nice that’s like a good chunk like that’s important but um you know you got to Fig you know leads in
37:10
the door is what we’re after here and so it’s not like an you know it’s not like e-commerce you can’t just run ads and
37:17
like people will start coming to your site who’s your ideal like who’s your ideal Avatar that you’re targeting like
37:23
a COO Co Manu manufacturing company they’re not even on LinkedIn I’m just
37:29
kidding seriously just Kidd I mean they they are but a lot of it’s just you know it just depends it’s generational
37:35
because there are younger you know guys that are in manufacturing um that that want but it’s
37:41
like they don’t have the education like they don’t know what to do like marketing is just so foreign and so
37:46
manufacturers it seems historically just have really bad track track record with
37:51
marketing they’re not good at marketing and so to then Market to them is definitely a challenge so it it’s old
37:58
some of it’s real old school right it’s like how can I get a really sick Swag Box in their hands so I can look them in
38:05
the eye you know and tell them how awesome we are like that is the goal so some we I mean we definitely will be
38:12
running awareness campaign like we want those people to see us in other ways like we want them to be reminded but
38:18
when we came when I came in there were definitely like um I think there was intentions to run Billboards but they
38:25
were all over the place it wasn’t like in consistent areas where with Billboards you want people to pass the
38:31
same thing the whole
38:41
thing the blip billboard guy he’s like our best our he’s the CEO of blip um but
38:47
like our our best campaigns are multi-channel right like it’s like the the people that stay with us longest
38:54
have a multi Channel approach and billboards is just just one of those things yeah I think he even referenced
38:59
the you know the worst company alive McDonald’s and how they uh they would
39:05
run out of home Marketing in conjunction with online paid and saw this massive
39:12
increase compared to just running out of home or just running paid AB but doing
39:17
both together like saw a big spike so do you guys have Billboards in any prominent location are you so I’m about
39:23
a month in officially as like an employee employee I was doing like contract work over the summer as I was
39:28
trying to transition and so the big issue is you can think about all that
39:33
stuff but when you go back to the foundation of what’s there um what are the like even I think people don’t
39:40
realize how much the offer is like it’s directly tied to the marketing if you
39:45
you boil down and it’s like the offer is confusing there’s too much what are we focusing on here you know and what is
39:51
your guys’s offer yeah so it’s it’s a lot of training like it’s even hard for
39:57
me to be like here’s what we do but we it’s manufacturing Consulting so it’s either it’s Transformations so we
40:02
actually go in feet on the ground and do the work to make it more efficient increase capacity and help them profit
40:10
more ultimately it’s that’s one part and the other part is trainings but there’s like 60 to 100 different trainings so
40:17
how do I speak to that on a website like I don’t think we need to speak to like we need to speak to the problems that
40:23
are you know those are facing and not the individual things so it’s a lot of working through that um because
40:29
ultimately these ads are going to lead them somewhere that’s going to you know confuse the heck out of them right and
40:34
so the the website too right everything’s going to come back to a landing page or website and if it’s not
40:41
communicating clearly we’re just putting like you guys know putting money down the drain so is that like your focus
40:47
right now is I’m trying to rewrite the content for the website so the messaging is we’re completely rebuilding it right
40:52
now from yeah and we actually have a for-profit version of this uh with
40:58
similar products that so we’re launching another brand as well so by in about 3 months we’re hoping to have two large
41:05
websites built we will see how it goes that’s awesome I love that yeah it’s a lot but so how do you approach re
41:12
writing a Brand’s like offer and structure because for us I think about scroll and we have had our same website
41:21
now for about 18 months yeah a year about a year and uh my and it looks
41:27
great I I actually like a lot of the messaging on there but I really want to
41:33
find a way and Dan and I were talking about this the other day like how do we simplify our messaging to the point
41:39
where like somebody because our name is scroll somebody just gets on it’s like Hi here’s who we are here’s what we do
41:45
here’s why you would pick me yeah like here’s why you pick us so how do you go about and see I probably even went through that structure in a bad way or
41:53
poor way like how would you structure going to the T coming to the table if we
41:58
were to say like hey we just want to re write our homepage content like what
42:04
questions would you ask yeah I would even if we don’t do even if I didn’t do
42:10
like a brand strategy session with you you kind of have to go through a mini version of that to rewrite a website so
42:16
there some of the questions are around what are your differentiators you guys have clear differentiators I in my
42:22
opinion like the the cost the how you do it how you Outsource you know um so how
42:29
clear is the the value that you’re providing um your client how clearly
42:34
displayed is that right away so you’re like o okay I got to learn what that looks like um so it’s it’s a different
42:42
it’s figuring out the clarity can I say what I do in a sentence um can I speak to the problem
42:49
that you’re facing and can I solve it for you and how do I and is the solution
42:54
focused on um our unique uh like value prop and and how do you know how do we
43:01
put that all together in like this really concise little word package yeah
43:07
that has been it’s so much more difficult than I think people it really
43:13
yeah nobody nobody’s able to wrap their head around that you know even clients that we work with for a very long time
43:19
like I think it it really is the foundation it comes down to how how you’re communicating and there’s no
43:25
reason to jump into paid advertising or jump into the design or anything until
43:32
you’ve solidified that offer you’ve solidified who you’re talking to and
43:37
then one why you matter why any of it matters yeah and why like and and even
43:43
beyond that is that Avatar even going to respond to it I think there’s so many times we talk to like our customers and
43:49
and just you hear about it in general like have really no idea if it’s like
43:54
actually working they don’t talk to their client about like any of that kind of stuff and you’re missing out so much
44:01
if you don’t part of that process is definitely really digging deep and saying why do they care like why does
44:07
this person I’m trying to sell to why should they care um and the other part is I when I’m sitting there in that like
44:14
thought bubble of how do I make this concise especially when I’m thinking about purpose and how do I communicate
44:20
someone’s purpose is like doing I don’t know if you’ve heard like the six layers of why or I don’t know the ex term for
44:26
it but you say well why am I doing this and you answer that question and you say well why does that matter okay and you
44:33
answer that okay well why does that matter and you it’s like a little kid asking you you know over and over why
44:39
why why you ask it to yourself and then you finally get to this this point that uh with with impact it’s like well we’re
44:46
improving a lot of people’s lives it doesn’t you know it’s like you know you I’m sure Simon cynic why everyone’s
44:51
heard yeah but um it really is such a when you can clarify that that the core
44:57
of that there’s kind of these these stems that come out that make everything else a little clearer so yeah I really
45:05
like that that’s giving me a lot of thoughts for our uh let draft of our
45:11
website but now what I’m excited for is to see impact Utah’s website in a few months to see the type of content that
45:17
you wrote yeah I’m excited right now our website is built on in GoDaddy in code
45:23
oh it hurts me yeah that hurts me too that really hurts me right here I have no access to it it’s like it’s brutal I
45:31
just I I I just don’t even I’m like and that’s so it’s so it’s like it is everybody we’ve deal with that before
45:37
they come to us is usually in a situation like that yeah and I know it was I I’ve heard it was like a quick turnaround oh shoot we got to get this
45:44
up and that you you know someone knew a guy and you know whatever know I’m like we’re building on web flow it’s going to
45:50
look freaking awesome and awesome I’m I’m excited about it it’s just getting it done do you build on web flow or do
45:56
you have people that are going to do it yeah yeah so in backpack we’ve built a a
46:02
number of web flow websites but we didn’t it’s interesting because we love web flow but I feel like web flow is
46:09
like the go-to and like the tech space you know goes that way but I’m like the design functionality is just so good
46:16
that if someone is willing to pay for that and like wants that premium experience um yeah so we’re we we love
46:23
web want the the high the high level curve that comes with with that stuff um
46:29
well Catherine I think in in in closing we’re getting close to wrapping up I think the a couple of questions to maybe
46:37
like add at the end we’ve always asked guest like tips like hit us with your quick tips basically so one one of my
46:44
questions would be like somebody that wants to transition into marketing what
46:50
what would you suggest they either study read or like execute to like put them on
46:55
that path yeah I think especially and I guess because you can do a lot of different
47:01
things but I will speak I’ll speak to being like a marketing director if you want to lead a team in marketing
47:07
um get the B like get one thing that you lean into something you’re really good
47:13
at and be really good at that thing but in the meantime understand how
47:19
everything else connects to that thing because in marketing everything impacts everything else whether we like see it
47:25
or not yeah um so it’s kind of specificity in one thing and then um
47:33
openness to everything else tell me about what you do help me understand and then ask connecting questions so how
47:40
does this impact this and how does this impact this um and I think you need to look deep inside like you need to get to
47:46
know yourself well I actually took a test in April with a bunch of other female Founders I went on this retreat
47:52
with and it came back and said oh well you’re a trailblazer and I wasn’t
47:57
backpack marketing trouble so cool it hurt me I was like I’m not the founder like I’m not the person and it was hard
48:04
I bullied myself like straight up um it said I’m a facilitator and I’m like I
48:09
totally am and that is okay because I make it happen like I make all of it
48:15
happen and I make everyone play nice together and that’s a really valuable skill it’s a huge skill especially
48:21
especially when yeah I guess but it was like I’m not the one that’s going to take the risk and be like we’re doing
48:26
this thing you know especially when you lead a team like it a leader that can’t
48:31
can like more or less calm and Lead it’s there’s no leader at all I just finished
48:36
Band of Brothers like for probably the third time it’s like one of my favorite series I don’t know if you’ve ever seen it’s a great series but there uh Lipton
48:44
who is in there eventually he becomes Lieutenant Lipton but he doesn’t see
48:49
himself it’s like he had that same experience you just did of like not understanding that he was the one that
48:55
was keeping all of the men calm on the front line where they were literally getting bombed
49:01
and shelled for like weeks on end in freezing cold had little to no
49:06
protection and at the very end like they give him a battlefield commission and he
49:12
ask like like what are you doing that for and they he doesn’t even realize that they’re talking about him and he’s
49:18
like you are the one that kept everybody calm and we were able to win and take
49:23
the town because you kept everybody calm and kept everybody going see that sounds like me for that sounds more like but
49:30
I’ve learned that there are different kinds of leaders right they’re all valuable in different ways and so I I
49:35
have friends that are Trailblazers for sure and I’m like you go girl tell me how I can help you tell me how we can
49:40
make this happen right and I’ve had to learn to settle into that and and be
49:46
like I’m because I’m also an achiever so I see people who are achieving like I got to be like that you know I’m like oh
49:52
that’s not me I am the executor you know like not that I I’m not a Visionary in
49:57
some ways but I thrive as an executor like for someone else and it make I’m
50:03
stoked about it like tell me an idea you have let’s tackle it let’s do it and here’s how we’re going to do it and then
50:09
I can absolutely lead the team to do it but there’s some there’s a difference there that i’ I’ve noticed in myself so
50:15
I’d say to really know yourself and and know where you thrive know um because
50:22
marketing is Broad right it’s and it has a lot of different a lot of different skill sets are needed so uh yeah start
50:31
start there too like list out what your strengths are and figure out where they apply to and it sounds like that is
50:38
applicable to someone kind of debating if they’d rather be an entrepreneur or an entrepreneur right an entrepreneur
50:44
could be more a Trailblazer where an entrepreneur could be more somebody who executes but those roles could also be
50:51
reversed very easily where the entrepreneur is an executioner and entrepreneur is the person trailblazing
50:58
yeah because I’ve realized too that I’m also a good leader like I I would love like CMO is like that just feels like
51:05
the right place for me i’ love a huge team that I can I can lead to do but then having that new idea and being so
51:11
stoked on that idea that I just tackle it to the ground maybe that’ll come right and it just I haven’t had that
51:18
thing yet so um but backpack gave me a sense for you know where I fall in that
51:24
in that and I could do it right but I wouldn’t wake up feeling with a fire under me every day which is really
51:30
interesting right yeah that is interesting cuz I would say that I’m more of a like Idea Idea Idea see and I
51:37
love people like you I’m like yes I love it too let’s do it I can’t do that idea
51:43
alone and I’ve had to recognize that about myself like if I attempt to do it alone I’ll get distracted and something
51:49
will happen and you know I’ll get lost and search and rescue will come looking for me um
51:56
land land on your tent right exactly but that’s why like Dan and I are such good partners because there are different
52:02
types of leaders right like if we were both the same type of leader then that
52:07
would be a bad thing it would mean one of us would have to like find a way out of the business but luckily we’re
52:13
different in the way we lead and it’s been really we work well together and I’m very much more of the executor and I
52:20
if I if and when I go back full-time into growing an a agency or doing
52:26
something different I know what I need you know like I know I need a Shane like I know I need um someone that can
52:32
balance me out so I think it’s it’s brilliant you guys started together it’s aesome and well Catherine thank you so much for
52:39
joining us today it’s been super fun we’re so glad to have you on and we didn’t even get to talk about Utah but
52:45
Utah’s awesome Utah’s freaking awesome yeah Utah is fre a mountains forever mountains forever and right now they are
52:51
beautiful yeah Utah is just popping off like a light snow dust well yes I mean
52:56
I’m telling you when it rains and snows as much as it did this is like a
53:01
hundred-year winter event that we had last year and we’ve got the most epic probably hundred-year fall this year
53:09
yeah I could not believe how green it was in August I was like what yeah it was such an amazing year good but
53:16
Katherine thank you so much for coming on I think this is very insightful for a lot of people listening interested in
53:22
marketing interested in entrepreneurship interested in understanding how they can get into a director of marketing role um
53:30
so this has been really insightful thanks Katherine appreciate it [Music]
53:39
you
