Empowering Leadership and Authentic Connections: Insights from Logan Mallory on Scroll Sessions

In a recent episode of “Scroll Sessions,” host Dan Page had the pleasure of welcoming Logan Mallory, a distinguished marketing professional and the current VP of Marketing at Motivosity. Mallory, renowned for his extensive background in marketing and his accolades, including being named among Utah’s Business 40 Under 40, shared his insights on building meaningful relationships and redefining success.

Mallory’s approach to networking left a significant impression, especially with his straightforward yet profound question: “What is your biggest problem right now, and how can I help?” This approach not only breaks the ice but also paves the way for genuine, value-driven interactions, emphasizing the power of empathy and support in professional settings.

Reflecting on his personal and professional journey, Mallory highlighted the importance of adapting and learning from challenges. His story is a testament to the idea that embracing failures and redefining one’s metrics for success can lead to fulfilling experiences, both in life and career.

Moreover, Mallory’s commitment to creating positive work environments shines through his work with Motivosity. He passionately discussed the role of workplace culture in enhancing employee happiness and productivity, underscoring the significance of recognition and community building.

This podcast episode not only offered valuable lessons on professional growth and personal resilience but also served as a reminder of the impact kindness and sincerity can have in forging lasting connections. Mallory’s journey and insights inspire us to reflect on our paths and the ways we can contribute positively to those around us.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/loganmallory/

https://www.motivosity.com/

Podcast Transcript

0:01[Music]

0:09well today on scroll sessions we’ve got Logan mallerie you’re a husband dad of four kids four kids been in the

0:15marketing industry for over 10 years in various roles and capacities keynote speaker former Adjunct professor at BYU

0:22Marriot School of Business 2023 Utah business 40 under 40 pretty cool 40 or

0:2940 in there 40s I think is what it is and the current VP of marketing and motivosity I’m I’m all sorts of things I

0:35guess maybe from that list I should slow down no I love it it’s very like that’s like what I would aspire to be in about

0:4210 15 years like I I I absolutely love it I I uh I I feel you in the lot of

0:48different things that you’ve accomplished in your career you’re on the right path you’re sitting here running a podcast you’re on the right

0:54path you’re in a good place I hope so well when when we first met we’ve been

0:59connect on LinkedIn but when we met in person you said something that really stuck out to me you before I mean you

1:06introduce yourself we kind of like chatted we were at this lunch and learn sure and I came up introduced myself

1:11shook your hand and you literally said what is your biggest problem right now and how can I help uhhuh and that just

1:18like literally has like completely like it shook me and then has stuck with me ever since talk to me about that uh well

1:25I’m I’m glad like I’m glad that that uh helped and I hope that felt since sinere because it did it really did um I like

1:34those interactions are always really interesting you’re meeting new people they’re they’re mildly familiar we’re

1:40all a part of the same community and and sometimes I think we just don’t know where to go or what to say and and we we

1:47want to help but we’re not sure how and so for me I just like that’s one of the

1:52things I think about like what are you struggling with what’s miserable for you what are you trying to push through and

1:58if nothing else um like maybe it shows some sincerity and lets you know you’re not alone uh maybe I know someone that

2:05you want to know maybe I’ve solved that problem before uh maybe I can get you to think about it a little bit differently

2:11so it doesn’t feel like such a big problem and so um I I don’t know like I

2:16I don’t I don’t walk around thinking that’s the question to ask everyone but

2:22I often find that when I ask a question like that it opens up a conversation and it does go a lot further than where are

2:29you from right like we’re going to talk about where you from and then we’re going to see if we know anybody in

2:34common but if I ask a deeper question about what you’re struggling with then we get to the sincere part a little bit

2:40faster yeah and like having an authentic conversation like and I’ve I’ve used

2:47that I’ve stolen that since and I think it I just think it totally yeah it’s

2:53that authenticity and then it really just opens up the floodgates for for

2:58Value sure to be like injected in the conversation right otherwise it’s just

3:03chitchat yeah you i’ I’ve found uh lots of times people say hey Logan how are you and I’ll be like I’m awesome and it

3:10kind of throws them off like people like kind of stop and they’re like awesome what does that even what does that even mean mean um and sometimes it’s true and

3:18sometimes I’m making it true right yeah um but I think when we just get out of

3:23kind of this the when when we have um patterns those patterns don’t always

3:28help us and sometimes breaking those patterns gets us to better spots both

3:33individually and in our interactions with others yeah totally and I’m sure you you’ve come to like a realization of

3:41that so like walk me through your journey to get to that point a little bit um well what a journey what a

3:49journey I think I think part of my journey is like um thinking I knew what

3:54I was doing and then realizing I I I don’t and I didn’t sure um you know and

4:00we don’t have to go through all my career history but but I just thought I’d have this flawless career in fact

4:06I’m I’m working on a a bio right now and I I didn’t know how to start this biography off and so that’s just a you

4:12know a couple paragraphs and I thought uh I’m going to do something different and so I started off and I said I used

4:18to think that maybe I’d be a famous politician or that maybe I’d be the most

4:23the richest person in my network or you know and and then I realized maybe I’m

4:28not those things like but that doesn’t mean I can’t be great where I am and so

4:34I think that like in some ways the failures or the obstacles I’ve gone through have helped me figure that out

4:41and um and and helped me realize like I can be authentic and happy and and great

4:46where I am and I don’t have to I don’t have to worry about what I’m not um on

4:52my on my LinkedIn I talk about my my title says something like a Force for good yep and I can be a force for good

4:58whether I’m rich or poor whether I’m employed or unemployed whether I’m um getting along with my neighbor or not I

5:06can I can be a force for good in some way yeah no and I think that’s amazing it it really comes down to mindset shift

5:13yeah right absolutely like we we no matter what situation you’re in like you

5:18are fully in control of how you feel and then how you react to the situation

5:25right and you cannot you cannot control how others are going to react I think it takes practice like it’s so

5:32easy to say that in a podcast like it’s so easy to say that right but if you practice and exercise that muscle uh the

5:39way I’m the way I’m talking about it right now and and working on a on a publication and writing a writing a book

5:45actually um and in that book I’m I’m talking about redefining success right

5:51yeah and if you can if you could define success any way that you want why not Define it at something that you can

5:57accomplish yeah totally and so that that’s a a muscle I’m learning to exercise how has it been writing a book

6:04like I I like I I imagine what that’s like but walking through that process it was It was kind of interesting I had

6:10somebody um from a publishing company come to me a couple months ago and they said they said Logan I’ve I’ve seen you

6:16on LinkedIn for a while and I think you have something to say and and we should put in a book yeah um and so I started

6:23you know I put together this proposal and and the proposal flew out of me like

6:28once I started typing it just came yeah um and then I started writing the actual book itself and I got a few chapters in

6:34and I think they’re really solid I love them I can’t wait to read them myself yeah I’m stoked I hope we get a copy

6:42chapters and then Life Hit and I you know had some mental health things and

6:47and this is I’m not talking about years I’m talking about within weeks right and like some mental health challenges that

6:53reared themselves uh some things at home and a like just stuff happened yeah and

6:59I am having the hardest time getting getting back into it right like finding

7:04my momentum again yeah for sure so for me writing this book is a is a really exciting opportunity and something I’ve

7:10always wanted to do and it is also a challenge and like it’s hard it’s hard to write an inspirational motivational

7:17book when you’re going through it when you’re going through it yeah absolutely and I think that’s okay like I’m just

7:24fine saying that’s that’s the truth today yeah well and not only the truth but like I think it’s the perspective

7:31like obviously we like hearing from people that have I mean let me back up

7:37it’s the Hero Journey I guess sure right I am Luke Skywalker you’re Luke

7:42Skywalker no 100% but it is the hero’s journey like you you are going through it and sharing that and being open enough to

7:50say this is where I’m at this is where I’ve been and this is where I’m going right is that’s the Catalyst and I would

7:57say is very analogous to Market Marketing in general right for sure Absol absolutely um I can see I can see

8:05parts of of that take place in my career in my marketing career so I agree with

8:11you yeah totally well talk to me about the origins of of of Logan mallerie talk

8:17to me about kind of where you started you grew up in Detroit yeah I grew up in Detroit just about about 30 minutes

8:23outside of the city uh right by University of Michigan in an arbor um beautiful spot loved it uh um my my

8:30parents are still there and like my heart yearns to be there if if all of my

8:35dreams work out I’ll have a a little teeny cabin in Michigan where no one can find me and Arbor is really pretty too

8:41it’s beautiful yeah it’s a lot of culture a lot of uh great great Sports you know great um great school there um

8:48and and so I grew up there that’s where I grew up and like six days after high

8:53school graduation I packed up and came out to to BYU bring on University in Utah and uh went went to school uh my

9:02whole life everybody always said Logan you’ll you’ll be great at sales yeah and what they really meant was Logan you’re

9:08kind of a nice guy and you can sort of talk to people yeah you’re good with people yeah I’m all right I’m all right

9:14so I I went into sales and was miserable like I I did okay I won’t I won’t say I was amazing but um I was miserable and

9:21it took me a couple years to figure out how to transition out of that and and it I got into marketing and marketing’s

9:27been the perfect balance for me the responsibility of numbers and and contributing to the business and having

9:32an impact without the you know kind of the emotional burden of of a sales quot

9:37every month and so it’s it’s been a really good spot for me um what’s kind of cool about how that all came around

9:44is I’m a better marketer because I spent a few miserable years in sales yeah

9:50right like yeah you have you have that perspective that a lot of people yes and and it should go both ways I feel like

9:55if you’re in marketing spend like two weeks selling it’ll really like have

10:01your mindset shift you know exactly yeah I I wrote a LinkedIn post the other day and I was like hey uh marketers and

10:07leaders when was the last time you did a demo right like you get on that you get on that call and you start to realize

10:15like huh that’s not as clear as I thought it was or that is a tricky question to answer yeah so the the um

10:21though it was really hard for me uh I’m grateful for those sales years it’s made the rest of my career a lot better yeah

10:27totally and I think I saw post that you you you had said like your your home and the home you grew up in like form like

10:35made you who you are talk to me about that a little bit uh yeah my like I

10:40think that’s like literally the house and the and the place right the city um

10:47my parents uh built built this house in Michigan in 1991 it’s on a dirt road and

10:53you can barely see the neighbors um and the the kids that lived next door we

10:58just got got muddy in the ponds catching frogs and waited in the Stream in the summer and went got lost in the woods

11:04and would just set out a sleeping bag and uh man I I love it there and so I think there is that element um I moved

11:12to this town in second grade and and it feels like from the minute I got there I

11:17was really blessed with great friends um I had had this group of guys that I spent most of sixth grade through high

11:25school with and we called ourselves the fellas um and they I I don’t even know

11:31how it worked out this way they were the nicest kids like not perfect but but we

11:37kind of all lifted each other in being kind and fun and and and I think we were

11:43this like I think we’re the nice group of kids and and um I love that that

11:49group of guys it’s and and girls there were girls that we we had girl we had friends we had girlfriends it’s fine um

11:55that’s so formidable like friends especially I think at that age if you can get in a good friend group which I

12:01think like I I feel lucky and blessed that I had a good friend group I had plenty of other friends who didn’t have

12:06friend group or other family that didn’t have good friends and it’s so formidable in those years and who you’re going to

12:12become yeah I think I think we just uh like it it formed this idea that you can

12:18be cool and nice and and I like that combo yeah totally and I feel like

12:24that’s gone very well for you in the rest of your career I hope so is that arrogant to say I think cool and nice

12:29cuz I do think I’m cool and nice yeah I think so I think so too I will back that up I will 100% back that up I love that

12:36uh well talk talk to us about motivosity right now where you’re at yeah I love

12:42motivosity we’re having such a good time over there yeah you guys seem like it’s like a I want to come more for you guys yeah come hang out with us anytime

12:48anytime um we so I joined motivosity about three years ago and I had actually been a customer of the of the company

12:55before I worked there um one of the reasons I joined our our founder is Scott Johnson and Scott started a

13:01company called atask which rebranded to workfront which was purchased by Adobe a

13:06few years ago for a very Hefty sum of money yeah and so um right or wrong part

13:12of the reason I I wanted to be at that role was to learn from Scott right and I think there’s really amazing

13:18entrepreneurs like yourself and and you know young people that um just are killing it in the business world I

13:25wanted to go learn from somebody that had done it right that like Tak their lumps had had the experience and and I

13:31knew I could get that from Scott um and then the other reason that I was really compelled to motivosity is I’ve always

13:37I’ve always been almost always been involved with really good products yeah um and and reputable honest products

13:44yeah you were at workfront too right yeah I did I spent time at workfront I was at log me in and drive Communications I worked for a publishing

13:51company called desert Book for a while so like great honest companies kind of

13:57boring companies sometimes right like like project management software doesn’t pum me up right business phone systems

14:04like ends up I I don’t have dreams about selling business phone systems so to go

14:09to a place like motivosity which focuses on helping companies uh build better cultures and making people happier at

14:16work that was really cool for me and all my um all my dreams have come true yeah

14:21that’s amazing man well it’s a cool it’s like a cool platform tell tell us like a little more about what the platform does

14:28for for businesses yeah so motivosity is a platform that that again helps companies create winning cultures and we

14:34do that really through two concepts we do that through recognition and helping people feel uh appreciated and and

14:41celebrated for the work they’re doing and then the second part of our platform is we really help build community at at

14:47work um and and so you end up having this place that instead of a tool built for HR or admins or Executives it’s a

14:56platform built for employees and it kind of becomes the happy place it kind of becomes the cultural heartbeat where

15:02people share the good things that are going on where they recognize um the the wins of their team members where they

15:09create um interest groups and and connect and plan events for whether it’s

15:14game night or the road biking team or community service with your peers all of that happens in in motivosity um and and

15:22it’s really fantastic I was reading something kind of interesting the other day and I’ll admit I don’t quote the US

15:28General too often but the current US Surgeon General his named VC Murthy right and this is the same institution

15:34the same role that puts the the warning on cigarette label Y and one of the

15:40things he has six priorities right now and and one of there’s two things that he’s talking about one is an epidemic of

15:46loneliness yes right people are lonely they’re unhappy and then he talks about

15:51um about and I can’t remember the exact word he uses but he essentially says um

15:56like great workplaces right like work is causing mental health issues yeah and so

16:02he talks about how employers need to support people to one bring their whole selves to work but also too to empower

16:09people to build relationships at work and to support those relationships outside of work and and that’s what

16:16motivosity does like that is our goal to solve isolation and to make workplaces

16:22better well I think that’s that there two like the Surgeon General said two

16:27major epidemics in the United States and you’ve got people like we we had uh John Moore over at the Brotherhood and the

16:35the work that they’re doing to solve the loneliness Factor solve you know men connecting in a in a bigger better way

16:42um is so important right now and like my even my own father my own father’s been

16:48heavily involved locally with different organizations and and in his uh more or

16:55less Long career like had many many many many friends commit suicide and that’s

17:02in and of itself a major epidemic and so like and that starts not only with ob

17:08obviously yourself but who you surround yourself with being you know solving that loneliness issue because you could

17:15have everything in the world and still be lonely and I think it’s not only just

17:21not surrounding yourself with with good people but like really having that mindset shift internally right for for

17:30sure and I I think we’ve we’ve really set ourselves up for failure as as a

17:35country as a society um we’ve said and and and actually like again I have a lot

17:41of chapters to write so the the book isn’t ready that’s what I’m talking about in this book that I’m writing is

17:46that we’ve said this is how you achieve happiness and what if we’re completely wrong what if what if nothing that most

17:54of us are aiming at will make us happy at all and and how do we redefine that so yeah it’s it’s it’s a weird time out

18:01there and and brutal and I think we’re all trying to feel this reset and how do

18:06we how do we work through this thing of Being Human at home at work in our own

18:12heads right there’s a lot to it and the pandemic totally shifted that I’ve brought up two things that are going to

18:17get this podcast taken down on YouTube pretty quickly here um but like but the

18:23I think the pandemic shifted everybody’s mindset yeah and and I think maybe in some ways in some in some ways good

18:30right but there needs to be like your own personal mindset shift in into what

18:38what makes you happy that happiness isn’t really necessarily an end goal it’s like the present goal right um and

18:45I maybe talk to me about that I know you’ve opened up a little bit on LinkedIn about like sometimes going

18:51going through a rough patch or and you you’ve talked about it just right now or like how are you trying to like change

18:59your mindset on happiness I’ve I’ve gotten better at it like I’ve gotten a little more clarity and there is nothing

19:06like therapy to help with that right um I was on I was in a conversation the other day with a gentleman named zeep

19:13Zep runs a a podcast called the emotional man podcast and I actually

19:18while I was talking to him in real time I had I had this realization um about my mental health

19:25and and maybe it’s a maybe it’s a helpful like analogy for for people so I’ll say it again if you don’t mind to

19:31repeat yeah for sure what I realized is that my mental health has kind of been like an escape room and you you know you

19:38walk into the escape room and you’re locked in this room yeah and you don’t really know what’s what you know the

19:44theme maybe but like you just got to start looking around right and then you

19:50find a clue and that clue unlocks one extra clue or one door yep and then you

19:57move to another another part of the escape room right and and you’re kind of going you just keep moving and what if

20:02that’s what our mental health and and like what if that’s what life is all about like you walk in and you find

20:08yourself in a situation and and I think it’s a little funny we talk about the pandemic right yep I could just as

20:14easily talk about 911 100% right and somebody else could just as EAS my my

20:19cousin Roger would talk about Vietnam yeah and somebody you know like you there’s always the there’s always going

20:25to be the external factors 100% and so we wake up in these Escape rooms that

20:30are influenced by these external factors yeah and part of it is just look around

20:35and find the clue to the next room and don’t think you’re going to solve your mental health don’t think one clue solves your mental health one clue leads

20:42you to something else so for me for me that was um started off with I I had

20:47this health issue and I I couldn’t breathe and I thought I was I literally thought I was dying said goodbye to my

20:54wife and um didn’t know what it was but then that that triggered me to go to a

20:59hospital and get things checked out for sure which led to something else which led to a new therapist which led to him

21:06telling me something that got me to start exercising which led me to start drinking protein drinks which led me

21:13like all of these things and it was just step by step and and the good news is is

21:18I’m learning the pattern which I will have to use again in the next part of the escape room yeah totally and you I

21:25think in that podcast you talked about Cycles yeah right like more or less breaking the cycle and

21:31moving on to the to the next cycle yeah right and I think a lot of that especially those that have dealt with

21:38severe mental health issues you have to break some sort of cycle and make make the change but you have to decide to do

21:46that right and that sometimes for a lot of people is the toughest part yeah I

21:51think you’re you’re absolutely right and I think that’s one of the cool things that I like about my work right now is

21:56that we are thinking how do you make people happy they’re in they’re in offices eight hours a day and

22:02so 33% of your day is in this is in this building this facility behind this computer and and I love that we are

22:10trying to make that part better because it’s a massive part of what contributes to our mental health and our life and

22:15our happiness yeah no for sure I how we how we treat our spouses when we go home how we how we respond to our kids when

22:22we walk in the door yeah and I I I think I and I I kind of chuckled a little bit because I had a I remember seeing a Tik

22:29Tok that this I don’t know I don’t know what it was quoting but it was more or less saying that like the the huge

22:36factor in our mental health is our our friends at work if we do not have good friends at work then like it it’s it’s

22:44extraordinarily detrimental to our mental health and then there was some comments saying yeah it’s cuz it’s

22:50called trauma bonding at work it’s called trauma bonding I love that yeah

22:55help us cuz we’re trauma bonded at work but like I I guess and this gets us onto a good subject of like culture at work

23:02at like a a corporation yeah right like to talk to us about about that cuz like

23:08we and like at scroll we have a small team so the culture is very like palpable uh um and it’s also very much

23:15led by our team like Shane and I started the company we had ideals and values we

23:21wanted to inject in everybody and and our clients and everything and it’s very palpable now because we’ve been together

23:27for so long we have a very very close tight IT team we don’t necessarily call them family though yeah exactly for you

23:34so yeah yeah yeah yeah we’re like the we like that we actually really follow like the Netflix model of like our our team

23:41it’s a performance team right it’s not necessarily a family but we do all of those things that I I feel like

23:48everybody at our office is friends yeah you know I think that’s the important part the the question I ask is would I

23:55want to hang out with these people on the weekend like would I would I be willing to to go to dinner with them and

24:00bring my wife and go to dinner if I’m if I have to fly to somewhere for a for a trip or work am I cool traveling with

24:07them and and they don’t need to be my family to do that they just need to be nice kind respectable fun people yeah

24:13totally um yeah it’s interesting when when you’re at that smaller stage and and motivosity is 70 people so it’s not

24:18like we’re massive but what we find a lot with our customers is that they’re in this is this phase where they’re

24:24growing and they’ve had a really great culture yes and then they start to see the risk to that culture that growth yes

24:31can cause and so they’re trying to formalize and protect the good culture

24:37that they have rarely rarely does somebody come to us and say man our culture is horrible help us make it

24:42better yeah we play really nicely in the we have a good or a great culture we

24:48want to make it better we want to formalize it we want to automate some of the parts that can be automated that’s

24:53where we play really nice um and it’s it’s cool to see that it’s it’s cool to see um that companies get it and that

25:01leaders care enough to protect what they’ve built yeah totally do you feel like culture does really come from the

25:07top down well or do you feel like it’s it’s carried by the team I don’t think it’s I don’t think it’s it’s one

25:14isolated answer yeah right um I think leaders need to know that if they don’t

25:19create the culture it will create itself I think that’s a phrase that we hear a lot right like if you don’t create a culture something will exist yeah

25:26exactly and so the Frameworks the guidelines um somebody gave me a really interesting analogy the other day and

25:33they were they were talking about something I don’t normally talk about it was they were talking about the idea of masculine and feminine energy and that’s

25:40not like male or female but like masculine energy is organization and planning and and preparation and the

25:47female energy is a little bit more free flowing and love and creativity and and

25:52so again not a gender conversation but what they said in that was they said you know that the thought is the masculine

25:59energy is like the banks of the river it’s the walls yeah that that keep the

26:04river flowing in the right direction and The Feminine energy is the water and it rolls and and creates and moves and is

26:12beautiful and so I I like that thought um and and so I guess what I’m saying is

26:18both of those are good you need some formalities some walls some guidelines around your culture yeah and more often

26:26than not that that format and structure comes top down but you also need your

26:31people to care and to make it their own and to turn it into something motivosity has got a a really great playful culture

26:38one of our corporate values is stay young and a couple it’s been about a year we hired a guy named Tom Tom came

26:44in and within like two or three weeks he was like I he has he has this channel

26:49called I think it’s Tom teaches and he has an entire wall in his in his house of board games and on his YouTube

26:55channel he teaches he teaches how to play teach board games that’s cool and so what he said was hey we need a board

27:01game night and so on Thursday nights Tom brings a bunch of board games people bring their spouses and their kids they

27:07bring snacks and and so like our our top- down culture is stay young have fun

27:14yeah yeah yeah and the bottom up culture is Tom Run games night and Tom runs game night and we love it and support it and

27:20celebrate it and cheer about it that’s awesome yeah and I feel like yeah like especially when that it be comes

27:27increasingly difficult as you grow to more or less like as you as as we scale

27:33like our companies relatively like as we as we’re going to scale and get into

27:38maybe a 100 plus employees 200 employees increasingly bigger right it’s

27:43hard to keep that that same feeling I I think the secret is to then support micro cultures

27:53right and what I mean by that is the game night or yes the the site location

27:58or um individual team cultures team cultures um we have a a group that we

28:04work with and they about 800 employees and again not a sales pitch for

28:10motivosity but that this group of people found each other in one of our interest groups in the platform and it was people

28:16who loved Road biking and so all of a sudden you had these people connect and

28:21and express interest in Road biking and they started going out you know once a week and the company said man we love

28:28that that’s a micro culture and they had people from finance and sales and CS like people who would have never

28:34interacted otherwise yeah but they connect over biking connecting and spending time and so the company said hey we’re going to sponsor your kits

28:41your jerseys yeah and we’re going to pay for you guys to go do some races because that culture of being connected and and

28:48interacting drives better work better retention more happy employees and and

28:54so my question would be my challenge would be if you feel like the culture is

28:59changing because of growth what are the micro cultures that you can Empower I love that I think that’s like such a

29:05good piece of advice especially for like I feel like companies that have like more or less that struggling culture

29:11like start there uhhuh 100% start there like start individually get some wins

29:17yeah get some wins in for sure with the team so that you can you can change that culture for sure what talk to me about

29:24um the role of like HR and people org in building culture CU I feel like

29:31sometimes I think at least out like outside perspective is that HR

29:36interferes with that a little bit right or is it’s negates that right it takes

29:42the human element out of HR human relations right so talk maybe talk to me

29:48a little bit about that especially because you guys like actively you know obviously Market probably towards HR

29:55people people or people see sweet level you you got it yeah I I think that is a

30:00little bit of the old school mentality was compliance right I’m going to I’m going to worry about compliance and and

30:06keeping things in line and we need that like you you need that within an organization um that doesn’t

30:14mean that uh that a person in in HR or people Ops can’t wear multiple hats

30:21right you can be compliance when you need to be compliance and then you can support culture

30:27um when you need to support culture I was in I was in a meeting the other day and we were talking about some changes

30:35and and they were they were changes in process but they came with an emotional

30:40burden these changes did yeah and someone in the room said hey these are the right changes to make but can we

30:48think about our people and how we help those people like work through this how

30:53do we support them through it and so that’s not necessar neily like an HR perspective but I really appreciated the

31:01way that person thought about it because they were thinking about what needed to be done but they were also thinking

31:07about the reality of how that would impact the people that have to do it I think when we can stop and and slow down

31:14and be a little bit more mindful about that we can solve both problems and we can make much better decisions that much

31:20better impact humans yes exactly like I think I know you talked about uh recently like uh layoffs right and like

31:29and I think it’s a really good example of obviously D you did your homework yeah like that like like spot I think in

31:36general like Spotify like amazing company I’m a huge Spotify fan sure but obviously like there’s been some shifts

31:43in in in in business in general across the world in finance interest rates hiking all sorts of stuff going on since

31:50post pandemic it’s going to be crazy to look back in the next like 50 years and have that this pandemic shift you know

31:58anyways long story short we had talked about Spotify with their uh recent

32:03layoffs and how I would say like how different that is from let’s say like

32:09even Twitter’s massive layoffs right like talk to us about the recent Spotify laughs yeah they let go of uh somewhere

32:16around 15 15600 people like 15% of 15

32:2216% or so pretty large it’s not minimal right and and I didn’t know this when I

32:28made the post apparently that’s Twitter or excuse me that’s uh spotify’s third layoff in 2023 wow so that does kind of

32:35change change things a little bit for sure um listen I this is not popular

32:41this is not a popular opinion I really believe that each of us is responsible

32:47for our own career yeah and sometimes that means we’re on the journey with the employer that we’re with totally but

32:53that employer that company has a job and their job is to make money and their job

32:59is to is to have good return profit for their shareholders to have profit and sometimes that comes at our expense and

33:06if we don’t like that then we should go start the next Spotify totally right

33:11like like you are assuming some of the risk by being the person joining the organization instead of being the person

33:18creating the organization it’s two different risks it’s two different risks right and so sometimes I I think that we

33:26like to beat up and villainize the person at the top they’re the ones that starved their family or took out the

33:33second mortgage they’re the ones staying up 24 hours a day they don’t get to check out at night and so I think I I

33:41think it’s unfortunate that we vilify the people that give us the job sometimes yeah no and it’s difficult and

33:46it’s it’s to be honest it’s hard to know that until you’re in it right like I’m

33:53sure I’m sure it’s it’s hard to know like the sacrifice or the time or the mental health load or the financial

34:00burden like the you know the people at the top take on the majority of the risk

34:06yeah absolutely yeah or or literally like personally become liable like I lose my house if I you know if this

34:12doesn’t work or whatever exactly exactly and so like part of me I I love and

34:20accept that reality yeah right and the other part of me just hopes that those

34:25those men and women who get to make the decisions when it when it needs to be the end of a run or things need to

34:31change or you have to do a riff you hope those men and women are honorable and do the very best they can totally and that

34:38doesn’t mean they have to keep employing those 1700 people because like they’re the ones looking at the p&l and Y exact

34:45anyway I I feel both as someone I’ve never started a company but I love

34:50capitalism yeah um and I have been let go and I I know what that feels like and so I can kind of feel both sides of

34:56those um I don’t understand vilifying people when they’re trying um and and so anyway

35:04I I I don’t know if that’s a a helpful thought no no I think so but like five months of severance is pretty good and

35:11that’s what Spotify gave like yeah five months is is probably an average days on Market maybe not in this job market but

35:18on average that should get You Like It Gets You Through Christmas It Gets You Through new years’s you have health insurance for five months that either

35:24gives you some time to get creative or or find a new job or I guess move in

35:29with your in-law yeah you got to do what you got to do 100% you got to do what you got to do but I know I think it it’s

35:36like it’s been a lot more uh especially with like the recent even jane.com shutting down yeah that was unfortunate

35:42such a like compare and contrast like literally giving your employees their

35:49last paycheck on the day and letting them go no severance no nothing no explanation we’re done we’re shut down

35:56so different then guys we had to make this decision and I think that even the announcement was pretty empathetic love

36:03that that email to to like from from Spotify and then also like we we we’re

36:08going to take care of you as long as we can literally afford to take care of you yeah and doing doing the best that they

36:14could yeah it’s it’s not I I don’t mean to sound I hope I don’t sound like I’m downplaying the needs of those

36:21individuals like I I know what that is like yeah to be that terrified yeah you’ve been there um

36:28but uh we should appreciate when a company does what is good and and we

36:33should honor that and be grateful that they didn’t do what other leaders have done where it is just you’re out good

36:39luck yeah not not even good luck you’re out you’re out and it’s yeah it’s completely inhuman yeah for sure and

36:46yeah and just it’s it’s tough and I empathize because I’m a business owner I

36:52I get that perspective quite a bit um talk to me about being a manager versus

36:57a leader right I think we’ve talked a lot about leadership yeah um and I think

37:03and and and even in the the two companies that we just gave an example of I think one is very much an example

37:09of a leader a leader and one is just a manager uhhuh right I I think that um

37:16well when I I have I’ve been really fortunate and I’ve had great mentors all of my life that doesn’t mean every

37:22person in my life has been a great mentor but I’ve always had people watching out for me and and guiding me

37:27along the way and I am so grateful for them um let me give you an example uh

37:33I’ll go back to Brighton Michigan and growing up um in in high school one day

37:38they they were doing some sort of an assembly and it was a schoolwide assembly and they uh they mixed students

37:45up so they basically created a group you were with from for a day it was from all the four grades and it was just totally

37:53random so you were in this like new environment for the day and then they assigned two student leaders to a

37:59teacher and to that that new group and somehow I got put with a gentleman named

38:05Mike mesore and Mike had never been my teacher we had never crossed paths uh I

38:11you know like I think I was probably a sophomore and he taught Junior and senior classes but I got I got put with

38:16Mike and ended up spending the day with him um and then I think afterwards he

38:24probably wrote me a card and gave me like a five or $10 gift card and said thanks for spending the day with me for

38:30sure and then I would run into Mike in the halls and again we had just had eight hours together but he would ask me

38:37about things and check in on me and then after a while and this sounds a little weirder in 2023 but it felt more normal

38:44in 2020 or in 200 2000 he was like Hey I’m playing rall do you want to go play raka ball today yeah and so I ended up

38:51going to the gym and playing racketball with Mike mesore and uh then we we would play

38:56every couple of months and he would ask me about my what I wanted to do and my dreams and then when I High School ended

39:03he would email me and send me an update and say Logan here’s what’s going on in my life and he would kind of like coach

39:09me and so here’s this guy I never even had him as a teacher even after that and

39:15he still took time to guide me and and to to be in my corner and those emails

39:21from Mike were really valuable it was a couple years ago I sat down to to write him an email and typed one out and sent

39:28it and I got on Facebook and I’m I’m not on Facebook very often I got on and um saw that Mike had passed away and within

39:35hours of sending this email and I read through the comments of his obituary

39:41yeah and um it kind of hurt my feelings Mike but I wasn’t the only one there were there

39:48were dozens if not hundreds of students that said never had Mike but I played

39:54raet ball with him and he always check checked in on me and sent me his emails and so I realized I was just one of a

39:59hundred but man I never felt that way and I I love and respect Mike and he

40:04gave me a really good example that wasn’t that wasn’t a manager that wasn’t just a guy doing his job teaching

40:10English classes at Brighton High School that was a guy that knew how to mentor and and so I hope that I hope that I can

40:17work that way a little bit in my life too yeah that’s amazing story and I feel like yeah like even just I’m just

40:23thinking back to like mentors that have taken the their time and my own life and just made it made it possible like it it

40:29is there’s such a stark difference between I think we know we know what

40:35leadership is yeah like when it when it comes down to it like we know what that is and then we also we very much know

40:43when you’re in it we know when you have a manager versus a leader right right and it’s and I I I I truly believe you

40:49could probably bottle it down to like time and empathy I think those two

40:55things in the combination of those two things are are really what makes like a leader versus a manager yeah we we

41:02probably overestimate ourselves when we are in the leadership role but I think

41:07that like the way I analyze that when I’m thinking about the human that’s leading me is do I want to follow this

41:15person or do I have to follow this person right and when I have to that’s a

41:20manager yep when I want to that’s a leader no I think that’s a great like an

41:26amazing distinction between the two and it yeah and that comes from oneself yeah

41:32you know making that distinction it it doesn’t take much to be that leader like I I think knowing a little bit about

41:38people’s personal lives knowing what makes them excited having having an interest in their growth like you stack

41:45two or three of those approaches on top of each other and you’re well on the path to Leading instead of managing yeah

41:52totally 100% talk to talk to me about about um your faith a little bit you

41:59share a lot about your faith on LinkedIn which I think like I think in Utah is probably a little more common sure you

42:06know versus you know other places in the United States just because of uh the

42:11religion that I share in here absolutely and like talk to us about that why choose to share a little bit more about

42:17your faith I I made a post last week on Saturday night or maybe no it was Sunday I was in church and I posted something

42:24about church and somebody messaged me they sent a DM and they said you know what thanks for sharing that I really

42:30want to do that how much backlash do you get interesting for sharing your faith and you know what I I don’t and now I

42:37don’t know if people are unfollowing me I don’t pay attention to that and if they do that’s like totally cool Choice totally cool um I I have a really

42:45interesting um set of feelings about my faith and

42:50some of it I am so grateful for and some of it I feel like I’m working through

42:55and um when get this is AAW I’m not bragging about this when get too

43:01formalized for me I tend to push back right like you

43:06tell me what to do you’re a fun cool guy I’m a fun cool guy you tell me what to do and I start to be like wait a minute

43:13you invite me or encourage me or help me see the beauty of it and I and I can I love that and so um what I’m really

43:20grateful for in my faith um I’m really grateful for the ability to try again

43:28and that all comes from believing in Jesus right like like the very center of

43:33Jesus for me is that someone loves me enough to forgive me when I screw up and

43:39I get to try again and so like I can rally around that all day long with all

43:45of my heart um and it’s also what I want my my kids to know I’ve I’ve got four

43:50kids they’re 10 to five and not too long ago we we came back from church and we’re having dinner and I said hey guys

43:56guys you know we go to church because we’re going to screw up right like we go to church so that when we do something

44:02wrong when we feel guilty when we know that we’ve taken the bad path we have an

44:08idea of how to fix it instead of wallowing in it and letting it make us spiral and make more bad decisions like

44:15we go so that we know who we turn to to be whole and uh and I’m really

44:22grateful for that and so what I hope when I share my faith on on um you know in Social or on podcasts

44:28like this I really hope that people know that I go to a church and and belong to a faith that rallies around Christ and

44:36to me that is that is the beginning and the end and the rest I think will work itself out yeah totally I think it’s

44:43amazing I think especially like faith-based people in general it like

44:49the the hope hope Factor also the humanity factor is is largely what what

44:56guides us yeah right and and unfortunately again I I I don’t like a

45:01lot of the ways that we respond to things in 20123 and I talked about Spotify and vilifying the the CEOs and

45:07the executives similarly like I get that there are people who do not believe in

45:12in God or Christianity and and I like that’s awesome be be whatever you want

45:20yeah but I can believe what I want and we can be civil to each other and kind and listen I was I was talking to

45:26someone the other day it was really fascinating conversation um that is super into psychedelic drugs yeah and I

45:33asked them I said how much of how much of what you’re doing is legal versus not legal and they said it’s all illegal and

45:39I was like Wow and I was like tell me more about that like talk to me about that it’s fascinating does that scare

45:45you how like and and um this this isn’t a this is a wonderful person with a very

45:52good heart that is that is natural like thinking more naturally so I don’t I’m not even saying it was

45:58wrong I mean it’s illegal so it’s wrong but I’m I I didn’t have to fight with that person yeah yeah you could have an

46:05open honest conversation with that it completely contradicts with what I I don’t even drink coffee you think I’m

46:10going to do that like but that doesn’t mean I couldn’t listen and understand and and like totally wow what what led

46:16you to that and and what have you learned and and does it scare you like I

46:22can learn through that person for sure and uh I wish I I hope that when I kind of bravely share some of my faith that

46:29it opens up those dialogues rather than uh become divisive you got it exactly

46:36and and I think in our yeah what sorry I was going to say if you can share it in a cool and fun way yes then like that’s

46:44good and so hopefully my Approach there is is at least approachable no I I I totally think so and I think it like

46:51it’s refreshing especially in this age that we’re in right now now where it is

46:57still incredibly divisive and just so much conflict in terms of belief and

47:03forcing one to believe one thing or another you know barriers to free speech

47:09and open communication whether it be on social whether it be on college campuses

47:15whatever it may be like it’s it’s it’s really interesting so very commendable

47:20to be very open and honest and transparent I I appreciate I appreciate

47:26it I was at a conference once where juel like the singer juwel that grew up in her I think she’s from Canada originally

47:33and she was homeless and lived in her car so she performed and spoke at this this conference that I was at and she

47:39talked about the idea of mindfulness and she said mindfulness is the amount of

47:45time from when you think something to when you say it and I was like oh I can

47:51use that right like and she said if we can increase the amount amount of mindfulness the distance between when we

47:58think something and say it we’ll say better things and and so maybe all of

48:03America maybe all of the world or just if nothing else the people listening to this podcast could take a

48:09note out of jueles book and be a little more mindful between when you think a thought and you verbalize it yeah

48:15totally and yeah the and and and inject some Humanity into that conversation

48:21absolutely so um talk to us about being being a dad uh I’m also a dad but talk to us about

48:28being a dad and how that’s influenced your career I I personally think like having my own daughters and obviously

48:33being married has like greatly impact one my my performance and in my career

48:39and my job it’s also very much influenced my I feel like my my mind and

48:44my mindset when it comes to marketing for another business but maybe touch on

48:50that a little bit I had I had I have wonderful parents and I I learned a lot

48:56from them um and yet I’m a train wreck like I am I’m like I think I’m an okay

49:03dad like CPS doesn’t need to show up at our house but I am really trying to figure things out um well I think as we

49:09learn and start to interrupt like it’s like it’s interesting to me because like as I have children now I’m realizing

49:15like my parent my parents didn’t know what I thought they knew no no one does

49:22like as you get older it’s like no one really knows what they’re doing we’re all just trying our best it kind of

49:28blows my mind that for as disastrous as we all are as individuals that we have a society and buildings and Roads that

49:34work like we’re actually probably doing pretty good um I my kids are wonderful there’s four of them um 10 10 nine and

49:42five and so we kind of had like a little daycare for a while um what have I what have I learned from those kids um I I

49:52think I ah GE I don’t I don’t know damn like like where I would even take this one except except that um a similar

50:00theme if these kids can if these kids can provide for themselves be stable

50:06contribute then that’s then that’s going to be great for all of us and one of the ways that I think my wife and I my

50:12wonderful wife and I are trying to do that is to talk to them like they’re a little bit older than they are right and

50:18so um we don’t we don’t talk to our 10-year-olds like they 10-year-olds we

50:24we use words and and they’ll we use words that are bigger and Concepts that are bigger and we sit down once every

50:30couple of weeks my we we have three chickens at my place okay and the kids go sell the eggs throughout the neighborhood I love that and and we make

50:37them go sell them so they run across the street they run down the road and they sell them and then I collect the money

50:44and once every I don’t know four or five weeks we’ll sit down and we’ll do money and we’ll we’ll say okay what’s the pool

50:50and then we’ll split the pool by four and then we say great 10% goes to God where’s the pull out the tithing money

50:57and then we’ll say 40 or 50% goes into savings and we’ll and I literally transfer it I give them cash and then I

51:04transfer it to their savings account amazing and then I say great 40 whatever’s left the 30 or 40% you can

51:10spend on what you want or you can save it for something you want to buy later right so the savings is college car yeah

51:17house and then the rest is you want to buy a switch for yourself or or a guitar or Legos pull it and save it do it yeah

51:24and um we’re pretty intentional about those kinds of things we we talk a little bit above them yeah uh and I

51:32think so practical I think it’s a really easy thing to do sometimes my favorite one of my favorite things is I’ll say a

51:37word that I know they don’t know yeah and they’ll say what’s that and I’ll say

51:43that’s a synonym for yeah and like my 5-year-old knows the word synonym yeah

51:50totally we do it enough that that she knows that I’m saying it’s another word for and and so we just talk we just talk

51:57above them a little bit and it it brings them up one other thing um there’s there’s power in habits with children

52:05and this 5-year-old that I was just talking about um for a long time she would get dressed for preschool and she would come to me and she would say Dad

52:11do I look cute and I’d say yes and I’d say but do you know what’s better than cute and she’d look at me and I’d say

52:17being nice and kind yes and we did it over and over and over and over and then one day she came up to me and she said

52:24dad do I look cute and I said said yes you do and she said but it’s better to be nice and kind I love that right those

52:29like Words of Affirmation I do words of affirmation with my my 4-year-old and yeah it’s it’s fun to get to the point

52:35now where she can repeat those back to me as I’m saying them and and she embodies that it feels the best I had

52:41another one can I do one more yeah of course last night um my daughter was M my my brother came into town from from

52:47Pennsylvania and so we were getting the house ready right running around making the bed cleaning everything up and the

52:53dishes had to be done and my 10-year-old daughter was not giddy that she had to do the dishes she was not thrilled with

52:58that and she was partway through and then dinner was finished and I was like hey stop the dishes I’ll take care of

53:05them after dinner come eat and she looked at me and she goes I’m not a quitter and I was like yes I won I won

53:13that’s the dad I won that’s right cuz for 10 years one of the things I’ve been saying to him is mallerie’s don’t quit

53:20and so when she was like I’m going to finish these dishes I was like yes I have done it like I’m okay okay I’m this

53:26is all going to work that makes that was all that made up for all of the problems for the last couple of weeks you know

53:32yeah they’re they’re great they’re great kids and and so I think um those aren’t those aren’t business lessons um those

53:39they life lessons apply to business yeah absolutely absolutely totally well we’re I mean we’re getting close to wrapping

53:45up but I always like to add uh a question at the end of what is something

53:50you want to pass on to those that are either trying to come up and their marketing career want to make you know

53:57want to make a move into marketing what advice would you give someone what I

54:02would tell people in any career this here’s my here’s my professional advice what I would tell anyone and it really

54:09does apply to marketing is be intentional and be specific so often

54:14I’ll have people come up to me and they’ll be like I really want to get into marketing can you give me any advice and I kind of chuckle and I’m

54:20like that’s not a thing yeah like you don’t get into marketing anymore no right like do you want to be a product

54:27marketer do you love the analytics and do you want to or or do you want to the tools and do you want to be in operations are you a creative are you a

54:33demand gen person are you a copyright like get specific get specific yeah and

54:40and so I think people a lot of time in fact I um I see people on LinkedIn they’ll say um I’m looking for a job in

54:48X Y or Z and X Y and Z have nothing to do with each other and I’m like no one

54:54can help you with that yeah you have to be very specific yeah yeah the the other thing that people do very often is

55:00they’ll say hey I’m looking for a job can you keep your eye out for me and and I love people yes I got four kids I got

55:08a job I’ve got church I’ve got community I I have to exercise right like I got to

55:14spend time on these things sure but if you came to me and said Logan you know Joe can you introduce me to Joe or Logan

55:21there’s a job opening at company y can you help me get in at company why yeah I can help you solve that right totally

55:28it’s actionable like when you get specific it then becomes actionable right generic doesn’t do anything yeah

55:35you know so I I would say anyone that is thinking about their career and what they want next Niche it down a couple

55:42times Niche it down even further so that you can ask exactly for what you want or

55:48need and get the help that people can offer totally I love that Logan thanks so much for coming on today it’s it’s

55:55been great to hang out with you can I make an offer yeah of course uh you’ve got a you’ve got an audience here and it’s a small world and so if there’s

56:02somebody that I can help if there’s an intro that I can make or a job post I can help promote I hope people will will

56:08reach out to me on on LinkedIn and uh and connect there so that I can be a resource we need we need all the friends

56:14we can get good I love it well thank you Logan I really appreciate it [Music]

56:23absolutely [Music] the

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