Exploring Performance Mindset and the Value of Sabbaticals with Mark America Smith


In episode #7 of the “Scroll Sessions” podcast, hosts Dan Page and Shane Hickenlooper sit down with Mark America Smith to discuss the concepts of a performance mindset and the transformative experience of a radical sabbatical. Smith, known for his unconventional middle name and his insightful thoughts on various topics ranging from politics to workplace dynamics, shares his journey and perspectives.

Where “America” Comes From:

The conversation kicks off with a light-hearted discussion about Smith’s unique middle name. Born Mark Smith Jr., he found his name too generic and eventually embraced “Mark America Smith,” a suggestion from a friend that stuck due to its distinctiveness.

The LinkedIn Influence:

Smith delves into his reasons for choosing LinkedIn as his platform of choice. He recounts an incident where his straightforward post on sales tactics went viral, marking the beginning of his influential presence on the platform. He emphasizes that he posts spontaneously, without a specific strategy, driven by the belief in sharing genuine thoughts and experiences.

Career Insights:

Discussing his career trajectory, Smith highlights the importance of experiential narratives in shaping his perspective. He attributes his observational skills and the ability to narrate experiences to his upbringing and his father’s influence. Smith’s career in sales and operations leadership provided him ample opportunities to learn and grow, both personally and professionally.

The Sabbatical Experience:

One of the episode’s highlights is Smith’s decision to take a sabbatical in Europe. He explains that, despite having a successful career and a comfortable life, he felt the need to explore happiness beyond material achievements. This led him and his family to sell most of their possessions and move to Europe, where they immersed themselves in different cultures and experiences.

Leadership and Management:

Smith shares his views on the difference between being a manager and a leader. He believes that while management is a crucial starting point, true leadership involves a combination of skill, empathy, and a genuine interest in people’s growth. He emphasizes the importance of setting clear expectations, reducing workplace stress, and creating an environment where pressure becomes a performance enhancer rather than a hindrance.

Final Thoughts:

The podcast wraps up with Smith reflecting on his journey, underscoring the importance of making informed choices, especially when it involves working for others. He advises listeners to be mindful of who they align themselves with and to ensure their work aligns with their values.


Mark America Smith’s journey from a corporate executive to a thoughtful influencer and a seeker of a balanced life offers valuable insights into the importance of self-awareness, continuous learning, and the courage to pursue a fulfilling life. His conversation with Dan Page and Shane Hickenlooper on the “Scroll Sessions” podcast provides a compelling look at the intersections of personal growth, career development, and the pursuit of happiness.



Podcast Transcript

[Music] welcome to scroll sessions everyone again I’m Shane I’m Dan we’re back here


today we have Mark America Smith and the first question we wanted to ask you was


where did the America come from well number one I love America but honestly


um I think I remember but so my name is Mark Smith like crazy boring right like that’s


generic name but I’m Mark Smith Jr so I love you know I love and I adore my dad rest assol


but Mark A Smith isn’t also I mean it’s all just very generic and when I when I if you like


Google Mark A Smith there’s like all these really unimpressive people that have done these things and written these


terrible books like like legitimately yeah some of the most hilariously bad books ever and I was like ah geez


one of these days I gotta figure out a different name and a buddy of mine Bo Homestead was like dude you’re just Mark


America Smith and I was like yeah okay I’ll go with that for a while and then he just kept calling me that and


everyone did and then one day I was like all right yeah it’s not my name but


I love it because I feel like it fits your persona online really well because you do you do Advocate I I feel like for


America a lot but in a less traditional way that you would assume somebody with the middle name America Advocates like


who wouldn’t advocate for America I mean we’re not perfect I’m not like some you know far left or far right but like


like we all hit the lottery by being born here yes I did so we’ve got our share of problems but this place is


pretty sick yeah I know for sure yeah I love that spot and you you talk about a


lot of topics on LinkedIn I mean anything from politics gender pay Equity


crisis in Ukraine you name it there’s a lot of stuff why LinkedIn why why was this the platform that you wanted to


maybe share your story your voice your opinions okay so I’ll tell you the origin story


so one day I don’t know it was like five years ago


I was purchasing a piece of software in a space that I I mean it’s it’s something like I don’t know what it’d be


for you guys but like you know you’re setting up a new a new tech stack and it’s something that you you know you got


three options you’ve worked in this space for 10 years like and you’re just really quickly figuring out whether there’s any been any changes so I’m


buying something for my company and uh I’m going back and forth over email with


an SDR and you know all my questions are answered and I was like hey yeah okay you guys are still the best we’re 99 of


the way there can we get on a call and just um yeah I got like two questions on the contract it was really about like pay am I gonna pay monthly am I going to


pay annually and then like is there an evergreen clause so they set up a meeting and I get on


the SDR who had done all this work says Hey I want to introduce you to Bob and


John and I was like oh hello who are you and well I’m the account executive


assigned and and then John’s like well and I’m the vice president and I just really wanted to meet you and I was like


why he’s like well we want to get to know your business and I was like why


why and she she already she already did she did a perfect job yeah and they put me through this like half hour of so


anyway so I get done I you know I still bought it but I like I don’t know I think I was on LinkedIn and I was like


oh you can do a post like on Facebook yeah and so I just wrote I think it was


like I’ll never understand why some people don’t know when to shut up and just take the take the sale


interesting and then I wrote like a quick like this is what just happened in the future


like don’t do that and I just hit post didn’t think anything of it a few days


later a colleague’s like hey you’re kind of blowing up and I’m like what does that even mean and I go check it and


there’s like you know two million hits and there’s like you know all hundreds of comments and all the comments are


like you know you know like kind of some UPS you know sensitive software yeah for


people right um but then also people are like who the hell is this guy to drop this bomb on us


and like not respond to any questions my second thing you’re like I don’t even know how to do this hi everyone I didn’t


know this was a thing and then that was it and it was like I was like cool so


and then when I’d have another thought that um I thought maybe people would would benefit from I would just post it yeah


and people like what’s your strategy I’m like there isn’t one when I when I have a thought and I’m busy I might make a


quick note on my iPhone I’ll go back and write it later takes me more than three minutes to write it I just won’t write it obviously doesn’t make much sense and


if I think that I know the topic and I think that I’ve got something to say I post it yeah and uh it seems to have


worked out I think so that’s it I mean that’s that’s it that’s awesome I think I think that’s it’s good advice for


anybody wanting to be influential on a platform and just


start yep just start you know take your thoughts organize them a little bit and just start just get going well it’s a


very selfish thing so um I like to write yeah and I really


like that it’s constrained at the time it was like 1200 characters so I like to write and then it would make sure that I


was you know yeah so that was a really good


exercise and then um the amount of stuff that I learned like


is incredible I’m sure there are five or six things that have become a core part of like my personal operating system


from comments from people saying and I’m just like oh my gosh that’s freaking brilliant you know and so it’s a very


selfish thing it’s cathartic for me and I also have gotten to learn some amazing


things from you know interacting with people so give us some background on


your career because uh obviously the my biggest pet peeve of people like you on


like are the fact that you can


without strategy uh think so eloquently and put so eloquently the thoughts in


your head so frequently where I feel like that happens to me once every six


months um so I think your life and your background probably gives some insight


into why you can do that I I it’s a really impressive trait that I don’t think a lot of people


have I know I don’t have it so what’s what is it about your career that you think LED you to be so observant that


you can formulate and write this or give some background on your okay so that that okay that’s a really


important question because I’m not sure this answer is gonna gonna help but when people ask me that question I


say um I think it’s genetic no no so so when I


look back at my life um some people have like a photographic


memory or some other type of memory I don’t know what I have what I what I do know is when I experience something


in in life my brain is typically created a uh story around it like an ex like I


it it’s like this thing happened to me my brain will sort of remember what led to it and like you know it’s so my brain


is always sort of formed these stories within itself and I didn’t know that until people started asking me this


question I started realizing no I think the reason why is is because my brain


just happens to do this um the the second thing is


um I I mean I have actually had a lot of just wild experiences yeah


um but I I have a hunch that others have as well but because their brain doesn’t think in stories they don’t remember


them the way that I remember them they don’t connect them the way that I that I that I connect them


um and so I’m not sure it can be developed other than to say to people be observant if


something cool happens to you maybe write it down but don’t just say today


um you know I this thing happened it’s this thing happened this is what led up


to it this is the people around these are the faces they made you know and start to craft in your head some sort of


some sort of like narrative right um my dad was always I think probably


also because my dad everything was a lesson to him like he was so good about taking something and saying you know


there’s something I want you to learn from this scenario um in terms of my career honestly there’s


you know I I backed into a sales career I was going to be an attorney my dad was like being an attorney


is like mostly term papers and kind of sucks when you’re not in court and uh you know I was impressed by him argued


in front of the Supreme Court trial attorney he’s like yeah but that’s like five percent of the job and so I was


like okay I guess I’ll be in sales so I ended up being sales and sales leadership and you know I could go deep into that but you know starting off kind


of crappy then got good and um and have just sort of developed my


career through sales and operations leadership and when


you are around so many people and so many people report to you and your brain does


think in sort of these these experiential narratives well then you you just end up having


so many things that you can talk about as an object lesson and then and again I I have happened to


have just like some incredibly yeah like six degrees of seven bacon like or Kevin


Bacon like did I I got I got four degrees to anything in this world


um so yeah I love that well and you recently had a sabbatical in Europe kind


of after I would maybe say like ending your kind of corporate career and all the things


that you did well I mean why take a sabbatical why what and what have you learned from them yeah especially at you


know a younger age you’re taking a year off of work did you take a year off or were you still working no no I mean I


thought I would but yeah undo anything you posted on LinkedIn that was something yeah so yeah so basically what


happened is is I had just gotten done with kind of a long stint on some extensive Consulting roles and those are


great because they’re really lucrative and with the right client they’re a blast the downside is as a consultant


they don’t actually have to do what you encourage them to do yeah so it can be a little bit defeating sometimes and a bit


frustrating but still life is good and then I had a a role that honestly was a freaking disaster and


um and I I had one of those like I’m so sick and tired of making money for crappy people yeah and then I was like


you know what I’ve got a great house and great cars and great neighborhood and


great friends and most amazing family and I mean everything I could ever want but


like is this actually is it happy well yeah I mean it’s happy but it’s like is there another way to be happy so I was


like for sure hey babe we have enough money to like not work if we if we’re


careful should we just like go to Europe and she’s like yeah okay my wife’s down for anything oh it’s awesome so within I


don’t know 60 days we were gone I remember we went to lunch and you brought it up as this thought yeah you


thought you were like hey I have this role right now uh but yeah I might go to Europe yeah basically we’re like do you


want to do it and she’s like yeah okay and within 60 days we had all of our possessions down to like an eight foot


wow storage unit we literally did you sell everything we sold we sold a ton and then towards the end we’re like ah


screw it so we just told all of our friends just coming to like just come and take everything and so we kept our


piano so we we took our grand piano and had a friend put it at their house so it’d stay climate controlled yeah and


then we kept like I mean only the most important things to us your house did you keep your house no


sold the house sold out of astronomical prize yeah like don’t get


me started on that like well you probably saw that in the best time possible no but don’t get me started


don’t get me started because if I’m prideful about anything I sell houses for more than anyone we have some


mortgage industry backgrounds well no I just haven’t I have a I have


the market was hot but I sold my house for 40 higher price per square foot geez


than all of the comps yeah wow like it was it was ungodly and I just tell you exactly why and I can tell you why every


realtor in Daybreak Utah hates my guts um


like a 40 page article yeah yeah yes it is it’s you know again we don’t have to


go into it but if you have any idea how that corrupt disgusting industry works and


you have a background in understanding incentives you can rig the system in your favor and just completely wipe like


wipe the mat with anybody we sold it for I mean again


41 more than than the comps the best realtors in the neighborhood you know or


like your house is worth this and we’re like no we’re going to get much more and they think you’re ego they just think


it’s ego no way you’re going to sell it for yeah and they’re like what in the world just happened like well I used


your perverse incentives I turned the industry against you I used it for myself and if you’re smart you’ll learn


from me and use it to your advantage but instead you just don’t like me that’s okay yeah I don’t mind I’m in Europe


yeah yeah exactly I’m in my apartment in Rome life is fine yeah so taking that


sabbatical for a year and you your experience prior was sales cro really


high-end sales leadership which is in operations yeah most people think of sales but um


um people management okay yeah I mean I’ve I’ve employed I don’t know thousands of people whether it’s sales


customer experience sex any anything uh call center based I’ve done on some


outside and some retail and stuff like that but mostly in office sales and operations because sales is very much


probably one of the most high stress high pressure uh Industries and you’re


leading thousands of people throughout the year so you went through high pressure high quotas constantly getting


hit up by top leadership and then pushing down to your teams uh into a


sabbatical in Europe what was that shift like uh easiest thing in the world it really was it’s bad so I you know I


talk a lot about stress versus pressure and briefly stress stress is always scientifically it is a performance


inhibitor pressure for the right people is a performance enhancer stress is when you have a really big


project uh goal whatever it may be but you lack one or more of the following personal


competence uh belief in your competence


organizational competence or belief in the organizational competence if you lack one of those four


uh or you have one of those four you’re going to be stressed press search now now pressure is when you have the exact


same huge goal but you you know you have the skills you believe in your skills you know your organization’s giving you


the tools and you believe the organizations on the like I I got really


good at uh in fact it’s like one of the biggest things I tell my like work with my clients we remove all stress and


there’s there’s ways to do that and then we apply pressure and for the right people pressure I mean you’re going to


set record after record some people will struggle Under Pressure but that’s it’s actually a decent way to to help them


find that they’re they’re not in the right industry right but I had built my career my organizations


to be full of positive pressure and without any stress whatsoever and that last role


that I took was was such a ludicrous amount of nonsense stress that when I did when it


was over I was like I’m out of here like it was so easy just to like simply like walk away and


um it is it is weird though to be like in retirement or semi-retirement earlier than you thought


and there’s downsides to it like you know if you retire at like 43 but none


of your friends do it’s freaking boring yeah no kidding so so it’s nice to like you know move to Europe and give our son


this experience and give my I mean we were with each other 24 hours a day and just like you know we’ve always had a


wonderful family but just like really connect and then use you know also teach him


through live experience and not just like a textbook right yeah and


um I mean granted like I’m not necessarily going to tutor him in math


um but you know going through these experiences throughout Europe and teaching him about


life in slightly uncomfortable scenarios was was absolutely Priceless well then I


think you’re right that it is genetic because it sounds like your dad loved to teach you make everything a lesson right


and that’s a very similar structure to what it sounds like you’re doing with your son how old’s your son he just


turned 11. um he’s just he’s just wonderful I you know he I think we’ve done a good job raising


him but I think he was always going to be an amazing kid but you know to your


point like you know I I appreciate you mentioning that because I uh and I I hope your your viewers your


listeners don’t take this the wrong way like I’m some sort of like pompous jackass but you brought it up like


my I’ve been able to structure my life right now to do what I want to do and what I like


to do is is serve people and I specifically like to serve youth


um and it is worked out really nicely that I am


like my natural inclination is to not tell somebody what to do


but to illustrate something yeah and help them see it and then my my background in like sales and operations


I mean if you properly train and Coach somebody you’re going to explain a concept and you’re going to demonstrate


the concept and you’re going to help them experience it and so it makes it like makes me pretty effective at


helping helping kids especially ones that other people have not been able to


help um and I feel really blessed that I you


know was raised a certain way but also my career uh you know taught me


how to properly Implement change and especially during very difficult scenarios and so it’s it’s it served me


really well in life whether it’s with my son or with other kids that we work with to be able to


um to teach them things that set in and they really really learn


it’s not facts we don’t teach facts we teach observation we teach


Concepts and we teach like seeing seeing these Concepts in the


world around you and when you can when you start having you know your son or your


the struggling teenagers that you work with like my wife and I have taken in several to live with us and


or you know I volunteer most days in the in the school district when they start


coming to you and explaining something in uh in a descriptive experiential way


you’re like oh my gosh like you’re it they got it and I didn’t even teach them that they they s they saw me


do something and saw me working with this group and then they learned that


and then they they sort of taught themselves yeah and it’s the most exciting it’s the most exciting thing


um doesn’t pay well I mean voluntary voluntary Advanced garbage


um tax write-off I guess but it’s no it really is the greatest thing to just be able to like


I feel very blessed that my life has has turned into


getting back I don’t even know like I know again this sounds like I enjoy it yeah it’s not


like yeah there’s no burden to me yeah it’s what you like to do I love doing it it keeps you fulfilled it’s like you


have your your mission at this point now and I used to believe I loved doing it because they paid me lots of money to do


it and of course you know it was enjoyable but it’s like it was enjoyable but I can make lots of money for sure


and again I don’t want to be this this pompous jackass like but I’ll just I trust you guys won’t take it that way


but like you know you know a bit of my like we moved to Europe and got ourselves this


amazing apartment in Rome and we’re just getting like fat and sassy and the war breaks out yeah you get involved everyone’s like okay so you’re coming


home and we’re like no I think we’re just gonna ditch our house in Roam and like head to the war and we first decided you know why don’t


we take some budget and pay for one family to relocate make sure they’re okay and then


um and then some other people got involved and started to donate money and


then anyways like like we’ve gone way past that GoFundMe you know we we had all


these all these friends were like well geez if you’re there we were thinking how can we help yeah but we didn’t want


to just like donate to the Red Cross but like you’re there and we’re like yeah we’re like we’re here on the ground we’re like oh my gosh like we’re like


yeah every dollar you spend like we will will put it to work and so these donations roll in and um but then like


you know I’m not gonna keep asking for donations so at some point um you know my wife and I it’s just like


all right well we’ll just we’re gonna go beyond one family so we just keep like you know we keep writing checks and the


reason I bring this up is because again like in my career it was like I love helping people and I love that I get


paid a lot of money to do it and then um I know I like donating to charity to


kind of like you know help out whether it’s my church or local community but there’s something about her that it was


always like you know it feels like a sacrifice and then you end up in a war zone and you look at like it was this


like pretty spiritual moment where we were about to leave Romania and we’re


we’re we just got back from um from transporting this this family


um this Widow and her three daughters who had just spent like four days trying to get out of the country and we had


just transported them to to their new home and in um outside of Bucharest and we were driving back to Art we lived


in a hotel so we didn’t take up space in this house we bought out and at the same time my wife and I just


said hey I don’t think we’re done yet and that was my son’s like what we’re


like we’ll talk but we just were like well we’re just gonna we’re just gonna stay and we’re just in in so


you go from this thing where it’s like you know back in the U.S you feel like you’re sacrificing to like donate to


some charity or whatnot and then you get there and you you see people dealing with this


and you’re like it’s nothing to do now it’s a freaking blast like you know how much how much more do we need like tell


me how much to send like it my I don’t even I don’t even know like we haven’t


even like figure out a full damn numbers yeah but my retirement might be over like I might actually have to go back to


work but but but it doesn’t like it is and again that sounds like I’m being


like boastful I’m just telling you people are like oh that’s so great like no I


I believe that anybody if they were already in Europe and went


to go meet with these people going I believe you’re doing the exact same thing yeah and you’d realize that oh my


gosh when it’s like Hands-On for people who need it the most sacrificing anything it’s like the most enjoyable


thing in the world to take what you’ve been blessed to to earn and just freaking give it all away yeah you know


that’s super fulfilling I don’t doubt it and then you actually realize it wasn’t that hard to make the money I can just


go make more but like when you think that way um it’s just it’s like it’s fun to help


people hence the middle name Mark America because the opportunity that is


presented here right you have recognized it as a blessing I think that’s one


thing that I’m taking from what you’re saying is that you’re just there noticing that uh everything you’ve been


given is this position not everyone’s been granted right you were born in America you were given opportunity you


were able to make a lot of money through your opportunity and then as you went overseas it was almost like seeing


someone trip on the street you see him trip you’re just gonna stop and say hey I can help you because I have legs and


hands and arms and I yes I can help lift you up now where that’s kind of how you felt about being in this situation with


the war in Ukraine you’re like I I have hands and arms I have the money I have the resources because of where I’ve been


and I I can help you that’s what it just felt natural to you to do yeah and to take to take that back to I guess


your you have a new book coming out do you feel like that just what he said is


the difference between a manager and a leader do you feel like leaders actually like genuinely give back and managers


just manage well so there’s nothing wrong with being a manager a manager is typically how you start and I think if


you learn the skills of being a manager and you get those down and then you also


have a good heart and a good mind and and can be observational really care about people


um that that starting point of being a good manager you can then you can then be a good leader probably not gonna be a


good one right away there’s a lot of mistakes we make you know um and that’s why I’m trying to write


this you know publish this book is like I don’t want to take away you know any pain that somebody has in


their first role but like I at least am going to try to make sure that you don’t have to do some of the really stupid


silly stuff that I did but yes I think sometimes we and there’s I don’t this isn’t a


judgment on anything as an American we forget um that we hit like the genetic Lottery


and even me I’m like the poster child of it you know like you know intact families Southern Orange County like


attorney stay-at-home mother you know I’m I’m a guy I’m white I have a decent face decent mind I could play sports


like what’s really in the way of my of My Success but but as Americans most of


us are born with that now Europe is also a really amazing place and frankly we should adopt a lot of the things they do


but um in the united in your in your own Zone


in your own whether it’s in your church or in your you know family or your little league or your community things


start to start to get sort of transactional right where you’re like this person needs some help I will


donate to this and somebody will take care of that yeah and there’s nothing wrong with that there’s nothing wrong with that at all yeah


but then there there are people my mom’s one of these I think I learned from her


um the importance of taking action but then there are those who take it a step


further and say you know the transactional stuff’s being taken care of but


like someone has to go get this done someone needs to go actually it’s on the ground give somebody a hug and like you


know transport them someplace and and and that’s what was was really a


blessing about being in Europe in that war zone was there’s nothing transactional about it like


you know we got uh so we we bought out this bed and breakfast and and we started transporting refugees there and


it’s all women and children because the men really can’t leave unless you’re elderly you can’t leave Ukraine and when


we got there there was families already there and


I don’t want to choke up but like you see kids in the in the in the


backyard playing and then you see a baby who hasn’t had a


new diaper in four days and you see some women that are doing okay but they’re stressed out and you


see some women that are in the corner literally shaking from PTSD


and you just look around and you just have to calm yourself and say okay


it’s time to act it’s not transactional anymore this has to get done there are humans right here


and actually it was very hard to get them to accept our help and I had to be sort of like


you know direct at some point where I got my Google translate out and was like


we know that that you were thriving humans a


month ago we know that you don’t want to be in this situation we know that you don’t want charity yeah but you’re here


and you need our help yeah and you’re going to take it so get your stuff in 15


minutes we’re going to the mall yeah and then we go and my wife’s like okay you


go take a walk and then check back in two hours and then she like you know takes them shopping and we load


everything up and then you just and then everything starts to to come together


and it’s not transactional it’s this child needs this let’s work with


them this family needs this this city just got you know bombed they need food like


watching my wife in action was unbelievable I mean my wife should be the CEO of a fortunate she’s she’s


unreal I don’t even know some of the stuff she’s done I find out later you know she’s like oh look at this video of


this city in northeastern Ukraine I’m like oh okay who are they and she’s like oh I found


out the other day that the Russians spoiled their water took all their food and and uh they hadn’t eaten in a week


so I um I coordinated five trucks and then I found some guys to get it over


the border and then some other guys to pick up the trucks and then we had to bribe these guys and we’d got in there


and so they like these 11 000 people this is like a video they sent me this video and I’m just like you did that and


she’s like yeah and by the way you need to transfer some money I’m like okay so no but it’s like it’s like it’s it’s you


got to put yourself like there’s nothing wrong again with being it’s actually saying you know I have other focuses and


I but but I want to generously donate to this charity of my choice that’s great most people don’t even do that


but it at some point in your life like go do something where it’s not


transactional and you’re just immersed in it and you’ll realize that there’s no sacrifice in it you’re having like


you’re having the greatest Human Experience it happens to be helping them when you get past that initial where


you’re all you’re doing is helping them yeah then it then that turns into a relationship and now you have all these


new friends yeah and then you learn like we just celebrated Eastern Orthodox Easter even though I’m not Eastern


Orthodox why because their Easter was the most their Easter was most beautiful thing I’ve


ever seen in my life and so now my family we celebrate Eastern Orthodox Easter and so you end up going from


transactional to just like fully immersed with these lifelong friendships that started based on a need for help


and now they’ve turned into just people who love each other and um


in and I fully believe that if one day I was stuck in Eastern Europe and I made


one phone call I I have 300 Ukrainian friends like showing up to help me out


because they’re such amazing people and we are friends it’s pretty awesome like my wife talks to them every day you know


so I feel like when it comes to the service and or just working with people


and there isn’t money involved at least there’s no money being given to you for


profit um it’s different than when you’re in a work environment right like one thing that I thought of is how do I how do I


make my relationships at work less transactional and more like how do I


actually serve the people that I work with it that seems like a really hard thing to do since there’s so much work


is surrounded by money you know it’s not necessarily welfare for the most part so how do we


how do we uh make as a leader right like I jumped into a leadership role out of


me just creating it myself and calling myself one yeah um


but now that I have people that I’m responsible for I wonder how to make it


less transactional but without saying hey you know we’re all a family you know yeah because we’re not a family right


yeah because we’re not we’re not yeah um although I do think some work


relationships are better than a lot of family relationships depends on how dysfunctional your family no they’re


straight up people that are like uh no this this is like way way better than my family right yeah


so I can only speak from my experience which again is running large sales on sales and operations teams and we have


lots of metrics and but what what I’ve found is and I got to make sure I say


this the right way but if if you start with like the short Sprint of total micromanagement and I’ll


explain you can get past all the transactional stuff immediately so you know when I


when I take on a new company or a new employee like I give them a document


that looks like I’m look like I’m insane in fact I just put you guys could look on substack today right it’s like Hey


listen you’re gonna you’re gonna think I’m weird but read this and master this and you will feel total freedom it is


these are our working hours you are not to work outside working hours you are not to ask any of your colleagues to


work outside working hours unless it’s an emergency by the way these are the three emergencies they never happen and


then and then it’s this is how I want you to communicate slack for this email for this


um if you send an email and it’s addressed to me I will respond within eight business hours if it’s not you


know addressed to me don’t expect any response from me I literally go through everything on what


they should and should be if you’re on vacation you are not to work if someone’s on vacation you are not to ask


them to work if they if they work for one minute then they don’t have to use that as a


vacation day and and I go through all of this and so they know okay these are the rules of the road you know we set up


like non-distraction hours great that’s how we operate as an organization then for each of them I


have an expectations document that again is like dude this is like the most micromanaged thing ever it is


it’s me telling you exactly what I expect of you yeah exactly what the


definition of all that is and exactly what you can expect from me in return and then we we discuss it we


make changes accordingly because and I could do an actual organization yeah I can do an hour on this but like


literally every every dysfunction in in business and in life comes down to one of three things


um unknown expectations and or unrealistic expectations and or unmet expectations so what I do with


communication and you know uh with what they’re expected in their role and whatnot is I tell them exactly what’s


expected I explain why I explained to them why it’s


reasonable why why it’s it’s it’s based on real data and these are the resources


and and if they don’t agree then oh my gosh okay and we we have a conversation but within a few days of you working


with me you’re gonna understand I I know I know what suspected me then I give you


what’s called an autonomy document you’re like geez another document yes and I what I do is I write out


this is these are your guard rooms if you fit Within These guardrails you can


do literally whatever you want you do not ask didn’t you ask for approval in fact I’m going to get annoyed if you come and ask me for


approval because the document says you don’t need it and this is for me saving my time and I tell them exactly how if


they stay Within These bands um and they’re they’re accomplishing certain things they can do whatever they


want whatever risks whatever expenses whatever it is and once we we go through that over our


first couple days it’s the end of the transactions yeah at that


point like I don’t use Pips I don’t use performance Improvement plans


you’re always expected to improve you’re going to improve because we’re going to work together every day and when I see


that you need to improve on something I’ll get in there with you and Coach you on it you know the only time anybody ever gets


something from me is I give them something called a letter of concern which says hey you know I’m concerned as


you know this is what’s expected and and you failed to meet some of these expectations that’s it signed mark


and they say was this a pip no you’re everyone’s on the PIP at all times


everything is like you’re always expected to improve but we improve by


working together on this it’s not transactional it’s it’s it’s collaborative so no one has to ask


me if they’re doing a good job like you know if you’re doing a good job it’s like we provide all the dashboards and


everything and and if they if they if they want to know I say hey am I doing something wrong like why do you feel


insecure because based on what I’ve given you you’re you’re doing an amazing job yeah have I


you know have I broken trust or you know whatever it may be and so honestly if


you just set the guidelines early micromanage that for like two days of


their career or per quarter or whatever it is and then you walk in and your agenda as


a leader is um who do I need to support today so I


look at my dashboards I look at my project schedules and I say what is uh


what’s within the reason like within limits of normal okay I don’t need to worry about that


uh meaning it’s maybe it’s slightly off off Pace or it’s slightly above Pace but you know whatever yeah and then I then I


go okay what’s abnormally but you know below Pace I say okay I need to address


that and then what’s abnormally above base because I need to learn about that because that’s not always good and so


but but if it’s if it is good and it’s repeatable and well I really want to know what’s going on I want to write a


bigger check like you know so so but it really is all about just me looking at


the numbers and and project plans and saying okay so what as a leader what am I doing today well it looks like so and


so needs some help so I go up to them and it’s it’s not sell more it’s hey you’re doing awesome


in this this and this I’m telling you what’s what’s going on here you know what and they might give you an explanation okay so there’s nothing to


worry about well can I help you today can I sit with you can I coach you can I call your client you know


they say no I’m good okay no problem then you move on to the next one yeah and it just becomes this thing where


you’re you’re constantly um leading because they’re managing themselves now I tell people


um if if you don’t micromanage yourself I’ll freaking do it for you and you’re


not going to enjoy it but like I gave I gave you these I gave you these documents we had these meetings where as


long as you do these things do these things you you can like you have all the


freedom in the world I don’t care when you show up I don’t care when you leave and I and I’ve specifically said


I want no work done outside of work hours um


you don’t impress me by sending me an email at midnight in fact the fact it bugs the crap out of me


why are you laughing because free people hitting me up no but I like like you should see this but you’ll be like dude


like I literally put like do not send an email after 6 00 pm


like use delayed delivery don’t send it unless it’s an emergency somebody has to


be dying call 9-1-1 then call me yeah uh there’s a data breach call the CTO then


let me know there’s a massive employee walkout oh we’re screwed anyway but let me know other than that there are no


emergencies there aren’t any yeah people can chill and wait I would love oh I feel like we could talk for days


this is something that we uh have faced in our world so I have so many questions


yeah one would be as a leader uh you don’t a lot of leadership roles they


don’t necessarily know how to do uh the tasks of the employees that they lead


right yeah so an example of that would be myself uh I have a we have a web


design team we have an SEO team we have a paid ads team I’m dangerous enough in all of them yeah


um expert in few so our web design team for example uh it’s very easy for them


to get overwhelmed uh and as a leader it’s hard for me to go and turn to them


and say how can I help you today so what would be your response to that how could a leader help in departments where they


don’t necessarily know how to do the job and you could also roast me and tell me I should just know how to do his job no no no no no so so at least five guiding


principles and one of them is credibility so in my world that’s generally easier to do I I tell people


you will never work for somebody who hasn’t done your job or isn’t still willing to do your job we may have done


15 years ago but when I ask you to cold call I’ve made more cold calls than you now in other areas especially as you get


into a series of stuff yeah there I have run departments where I I know nothing about what they do and it is not really


a good use of my time to try to go in and be that guy who like learns how to do it yeah what what I do learn though


is uh I I learn from other people okay in a


well-functioning web design Department what does it look


like in terms of like work schedules how many meetings they have you know how


many Sprint but yeah I kind of get a sense for what a properly functioning low stress environment is by maybe


meeting with other companies other companies and just really kind of stress checking like hey I’ve got developers


working all hours of the day or I’ve got you know 15 meetings a day and people say yeah it’s really not how it works so


so I learned how it should work and then again I go set those those expectations


of you know listen I’m not I’m not impressed with you


working 14 hours a day I never asked you to do it and I don’t know why you’re doing it


nevertheless I’ve given you the autonomy you know


based on these goals if someone says and you you have to trust you they can


tell you the truth someone might say you know what I worked the first three hours of the day and then I basically do


nothing for like seven and then I like really heat up again creatively at 8 pm and I worked okay cool


thanks for letting me understand I don’t have to go worry about you that you’re like working 18 hours a day because


you’re not right now now the spouse might assume that though because they go home and work yes and so we might like


you know we might have those conversations where someone says you know I’m really struggling at home well let’s talk about the decisions you’ve


made about your work schedule or I might have to say to somebody Hey listen you are part of a team


and you may not like the term but you are a subordinate part of this team


and you you have a very unique schedule that does not align with the rest of your team


um I can either ask 12 people to align with you or I can ask you to align with


them and it’s not like being a leader always like I’m not trying to tell people like


if you follow what I do no one will ever be mad at you no sometimes people are pissed at like yeah it’s like well


your inability to work with your team based on a very misaligned something is


is just not fitting in well right but if you just again start with basic concepts of I don’t expect 12 hours of work a day


um your colleagues are not expected to respond to you before this and after


this um when we tell you what projects need to be done those are the only ones I expect


to be done I don’t need extra things you know and and you have these check-ins like so why are we why are we


behind on this well working on this okay so that really wasn’t on the list


why is that being worked overwhelmed you know I think it’s an overwhelmed isn’t always an


excuse it can sometimes be true and as a leader it’s hard for me to know when somebody’s being truthful about being


overwhelmed or if they’re actually just disorganized or if it’s true that I’m


overwhelming them and giving them too much I it it can be really hard to find that so so go back to what we talked


about with stress and pressure so so let’s say you have somebody that’s overwhelmed okay


um you can you can well I might go further back and say the


dysfunction is because of unknown unrealistic or unmet expectations right is there anything I’ve expected that I


expected them that they don’t know about is there anything that they expect of me that I don’t know about okay I gotta fix


that by the way this framework doesn’t mean that all your problems are solved it means you can diagnose and start the


second one is have I given this person an unrealistic expectation and and the third one is you know are


they known and realistic or they’re just not meeting them and that causes them stress then you go to that stress framework which is when somebody is


stressed they they lack personal competency so is this person overwhelmed


because they they actually don’t have this skill okay uh maybe they lied to us in the interview they really don’t know


how to do this you know development that could be very possible the second one is do they have the skill but they have a


crisis confidence and for some reason they don’t they there’s things around them that are making them doubt whether


they have that skill so it causes them stress third thing is does the organization have competency


and is providing them with the right tools to do it and the fourth one is


does that person know that and believe in that right yeah so you take that overwhelmed person and you say okay


there is an unknown expectation one way or the other


or there’s an unrealistic expectation one way or the other because I already know the expectation


is not being met he or she is already not meeting them yeah so I have to figure out whether it’s an a known issue


or realistic issue and by the way realistic it can be objectively realistic but if they don’t believe it’s


realistic it ain’t realistic and you might have to convince them then you say all right that’s the hard part yeah it


is the hard part but that’s why when you start early so I wish I had it in front of me but I just worked client through


this and I said this is how I would roll out


um like a a quarterly Target for your your VP of sales I would start and say I


expect of you you know gross new revenue of whatever one million dollars in


quarter one next column this expectation is aligned with this


company goal okay third column this is why this company


goal is important where the sales team you know we we have to make sales but in


addition to just make more money if we hit this it gets us to this and this okay


fourth why is this realistic what is this based on what data points


well and I we explained like a paragraph form it is in Q2 you guys did nine


hundred thousand dollars of sales you had 10 reps five were seasoned five were


rookies you had this many leads per rep we list those things in Q3 you have 12


reps 10 are seasoned two are new


um there’s no no data point that says we’re not going to get the same leads per rep or there’s going to be a worse lead mix


we have not changed pricing we have added to the product without changing pricing


and and you so this is why this is completely realistic so like you know the next column is now this is what you


can expect of me this is what I’m committing to you you will have this this this this this and this


and then we explain by the way if we fail to provide those things


um none of us gets to say oh dang it we missed our number because we blame each other


we are still as a group we are still expected to hit this number but understand if we fail in one of


these regards I as your leader I’m going to have to figure out a way to compensate and then you might have to


meet me halfway to compensate because we’ve got to go to it right and then I sit down I provide it to them


and then we meet a day later and we walk through it and and we say so


you know and like you’re going to be hung to this number so


um you need to speak up let’s walk through this and some might say no there’s honestly there’s that


I understand okay you understand no no repeat it back to me what yeah is this realistic do you really do you really


understand do you believe this do you have any doubts at all am I missing something like has there been a shift in


anything that I’m not seeing yeah let’s collaborate let’s collaborate well actually two of my veterans might be


quitting okay they’re disengaged have they quit yet no are they upset they’re not upset but you know they’re


considering you know this other company okay let’s work on that okay yeah


um but then we we iron it all out and then we’re like okay and we do that for each expectation we say okay we’re good


all right so it’s known and then we have I literally haven’t sign it then I send it a DocuSign and


then I email it I love it right you are partial lawyer well it’s just like let’s but no it’s just acknowledging you like


actually putting the paper that you’re saying agreements prevent disagreements yes like yes good it’s like


because if you ever have that person under serious stress who says well I really know you go


hey I see that you’re under stress and we’re going to talk about that and


I’m going to do whatever I can to remove that but you cannot look at me in the eye and


tell me that you did not know this is an expectation yeah and they say well okay you’re right good let’s not do that to


each other yeah let’s talk about what’s really going on has something changed


well I’m really struggling with my skills okay let’s work on or you know what you know I’m not you


know what’s something whatever but if you if you make those things super clear and then again you provide


like by the way this is what you’re allowed to do without even asking me permission this is your autonomy document and so you’re


freed up to do those things and and this is well I’m stressed about all these


meetings okay who’s violating the meeting culture


well so and so honestly keeps holding hour-long meetings and then starting late and and it’s like okay I’ll go talk


to them because no like that that is a serious problem we committed to you that we would not waste your time and get in


the way of you meeting your goals so I’m going to look at everyone’s calendar I’m going to go see if anyone’s


lacking an agenda or a definition of success and if they are I’m deleting it and I’ll deal with them and if you get


to a meeting and so that’s scheduled for an hour and someone says hey we’re only going to need 15 minutes you have my


permission to leave and say reschedule it for 15 minutes you know like we are rigorous about this and


some people think it’s crazy and then once they get used to it like no it’s the most freeing thing ever can’t do it


the other way we have fewer meetings we have less distractions no one’s allowed to talk to me during deep work no one’s


allowed to just pop into my office we don’t ever schedule catch-ups or you


know it’s like well we can catch-up is like I’d like to get to know you better good that’s the agenda the


agenda is we’re going to take a walk and we’re going to get to know each other better I’d really like to know about your goals we don’t just do like when


you get rigorous about those things you learn it quick then when somebody is overwhelmed again


you go back to your framework is an expectations issue or is it a stress or pressure issue now by the way sometimes


you are going to find an overwhelmed person and the expectations are going to be known and they’re going to be completely


realistic they’re going to be unmet and the person is going to be feeling


a a a ton of stress and it is going to reveal and and you can’t fix it


and it’s going to reveal this person it just you just can’t have them on the team right yeah and then in some cases


you don’t even have stress but the pressure causes them to


completely melt down again that that can be a problem in like a startup or a high high a fast-moving


environment a sales team but the framework allows you to figure out like what what is the source of this


and I can get to this pretty quick right and it works in family too like not to go off the rails but like


you know if somebody comes to me and says hey man can I talk to you I’m struggling at home what are you struggling with well you


know um my my wife doesn’t want to have kids oh my gosh is that really hard for you


yes I really want to have them when you were dating did she want to no she never wanted to have kids


oh um what made you think that was gonna result in a wife that wanted to have


kids I just figure every woman wants to have that okay so um unmet expectations


okay so you so you had a known expectation and and that she didn’t want to have


kids and that you created a you created an expectation that she was


going to that was completely unrealistic yeah uh this is you man this is not on


her yeah well what am I supposed to do I don’t know maybe get divorced I don’t know I can’t solve your problem but


don’t tell me that you don’t know where this where this is originating that’s where it’s coming from like it works I’ve yet to find anybody to be like what


about this situation it will be an it will be one of the following unknown unrealistic or unmanned expectations


yeah and then you can decide how to fix it so how do you deal with I think


the the hard thing for me is uh there’s discipline and there’s motivation right


it’s really easy as a leader to be motivated to want to follow these principles


um and you start implementing them you know you get DocuSign you make sure that everyone agrees and then you put it into


practice and this is year over year day after day how do you stay disciplined


instead of motivated to following this to a T is there more to that okay so you


have to be self-aware and you might be the problem and that’s okay that’s okay so you just address it right so I always


tell people like when I was a kid I grew up in the same house um each of us had our own rooms


and uh but like every year we’d switch rooms because it would make you feel like you had a new rumor you know and I


would move everything um perfectly in like an hour and then about


um seven little bits and bobbles would sit in the corner for exactly one year and I would never put them away and I


always thought that was weird and then I realized like even in my career I can take things 97 of the way there


but I have this uh this weird little thing about the like doing the final detail and so what I have to have is


somebody on my team who um who can do it or can walk in and say put your computer down put your phone


down you are signing these things and I’m like okay and I do it right so you


you wanna you know you want to be the best version of yourself but you have you also have to have a proper expectation of what you bring to the


table if you’re if you’re a Visionary you’re likely going to struggle with details so


you you need to have somebody who can bring that discipline and details you know to the table with you


um but whatever you commit to you just gotta understand that when you commit to


it you got to stick it through and so if you can’t commit to a lot of things just don’t commit to


it don’t make commitments commit to commit to only good things yeah and only


things that you can actually execute on and then if you can add somebody to the team they can add those good things


because they’re incredibly disciplined about those things then that’s great but


you’re better off doing less and doing it in a disciplined way discipline builds companies I mean


motivation you know might break a monthly sales record but discipline is what builds companies right and so you


just kind of have to know yourself I know myself I know certain things that I simply can’t get done without my wife


and and I know things about my wife that she will not do unless I literally like


pick her up and and later she like thanks me oh thank you for getting me through that yeah


um same thing with coaching kids like I ask them for like three things


that that you know there is no reason at all they can’t do


that right and then we do those over and over and over again so every day at practice they


have been perfect in three things and then sometimes you can add a fourth yeah


concept of atomic habits right just some simple yeah simple things and sometimes


you can add a fourth for some kids and not others I have some kids on my team that discipline wise we have Tapped Out


and my discussion with their parents is my observation is that we’re tapped out


and they said yes okay so we’re going to work together to use motivation and and what not to to


improve the outcome for your your child right other kids okay I can add a fourth


I can add a fifth if they ever start lacking on the first two three first three nope we’re going


back to the basics like and so I I think as a as a company


you just gotta decide like who am I as a leader what can I really commit to doing


um there will come a time in your career when stuff that used to be awesome and doing


you just don’t want to do it yeah so just don’t don’t fight it there are certain I’ve been offered gigs and


whatnot it’s like yeah I’m really good at that turns out I just don’t want to do it anymore dang it that was when I was


gonna ask you to be the CEO of this girl but like but that that is where


like this alignment of like knowing yourself and again back to expectations


like that went wrong because honestly if I look back


I I I I I willfully ignored something


that I knew it was a pro that was a problem yeah but that paycheck was good yeah so do I regret it not really but do


I know that I should not have taken on that project yeah I know it I I know I


shouldn’t have um again this doesn’t create Perfection it gives you I always call it’s like the


Mark Smith theory of like most likely I can tell you things that if you do them


it is most likely you will be more productive less


stressed happier it’s not guaranteed I can tell you something it’s most likely


if you do this you will not go bankrupt you will not do this and this right


um and then I can give you the Frameworks where when it doesn’t go well you don’t


have to be like why is it no you go back to your framework


diagnose it and then okay Shane you’re still mad don’t use your framework today


go go do something take a break but like once you get your emotions out of your


head like then then go to your framework and you’ll probably send me a text and


say yeah I know exactly what I did wrong okay cool we all do it yeah so it takes


a day yeah yeah like like that’s the other thing too like I talk about a lot like don’t learn anything in the midst


of Crisis if you’re like in a complete freak out moment in your family and your life and your business just like


there’s nothing to learn at that moment just step away yeah just step away get your mind right then come back


and and assess things and see how you want to improve but like


we all think that we’re supposed to be these superheroes like I always tell young people like what should I expect


in my career okay there’s a million things I can tell you one of them is


you are gonna have this like Crisis where you get your first job working


with dudes in you know expensive suits who have like c-suite titles you’re


going to be meeting with them and you’re going to realize they’re not that smart


yeah you’re gonna be like oh my gosh I don’t I don’t understand like I’m in the room with the big the big dogs yeah


and they’re stupid yeah and they don’t pay attention to things and you’re like yeah


humanizes the world for you yes how it works yeah so nothing’s as linear and


perfect yeah you know just realize that we all have mistakes and sometimes we


like you know we work our way around that but it’s funny because I got my first big job


since I didn’t get a degree I got a job that paid me well and I thought oh my gosh I I robbed the bank I can’t believe


it I got this and I went in they they required me to wear a nice shirt tucked


in slacks everything every day yeah and even in my first interview he said we’re a tie for your next interview it shows


respect for the VP and I did yeah I showed up every day never met with a


customer face to face yeah sat in a cubicle in my best dress for some weird


reason yeah and then uh but I really kind of worshiped these guys until one day I sat down after I


got back from a trip where I used PTO I I sat down with uh the VP and he said


you know when I first started here I didn’t take a trip for three years because uh I was that dedicated to


Growing uh this business and I just immediately thought like you’re you’re


an idiot I don’t want to be like you I don’t want to be like you yeah yeah and I mean that I I hate to call him an idiot


because if he listens to this I apologize I actually like him and respect him as a person but


he had he took his own path but for me that made no sense and it showed no


respect for me right it just was completely disrespectful saying I don’t value your


time I don’t value your emotions so it was funny that I learned in that moment I don’t want to do that and that’s why


I’ve been so anti-dresscoed ever so pretty empty dress until you know we had


ourselves rep wearing a tie-dye pair of pajama shorts or something on a call and


I thought okay just you know luckily the shorts weren’t enough yeah dress a little bit better but so no but but but


yeah I mean everybody has their own yeah for sure yeah I mean no no I what I


would say is just nobody’s right or wrong but you got to decide what you want to do yeah if you’re early on in your career I think you did the right


thing which is like okay I’ll wear this I’ll wear a suit and tie and you did until it didn’t make sense to yeah I


mean Mark Cuban loves to say oh you know once I sold my company I never wore a suit again well it’s really impressive


that once you become a billionaire you didn’t wear a suit and by the way now you wear expensive


suits again every single time yeah he just refuses to wear a tie now okay good for you yeah but but no I I really think


young people I mean you know people always like you know work smarter not harder I’m like no no


this is your first job worked very hard and once you’ve proven yourself to


yourself that you can work hard well then start working smart you know if


there’s a proper dress code in your industry yeah wear it until you don’t need to


anymore my father if you saw him when he was we just crack up because at the end


of my Dad’s life like he legit wore like Walmart sweatpants and like a five dollar polo shirt and he had like 50 of


them and and then like even in his legal career if you went and visited him


he’s like walking his office and he’d be like sitting there with his shirt off like you know like doing legal research


and if a client came he’d throw on a suit right yeah for sure but um but he


he if you see him early in his career he was he was pimp like he looked good he


had fashion back to the night I was like hey what happened he’s like the second I had enough money


where I didn’t have to do it I started running this one yeah you didn’t have to


keep up appearances but when my clients showed up I put her in a nice suit you know and I did what I needed to do so there’s nothing wrong with with there’s


nothing wrong with that but when when you have every reason to believe that


you can do something different don’t be afraid to do it I’m not a hopes and dreams guy you’ll you never see me on


LinkedIn being like everyone should quit their jobs and be a solopreneur and all that stuff right but what I do say to


people is you probably do have other options and


um if you aren’t happy don’t overnight do anything silly but start thinking about what you would like


to do because what I will tell you is that it is is much more likely than


you think that if you wanted to change what you do you can do it and


um but just be deliberate about it don’t be


rational go quit your job don’t go listen to some guy on LinkedIn like quit your job the next day to be a life coach


but you know if you don’t want to wear a suit and tie but you want to make good money okay


work through some different options if you don’t want to live in the suburbs of the city anymore all right start


thinking about how you can make a change but understand that there’s some trade-offs to that you know if you like


there everything not everything not everyone can do everything like the whole like nothing’s


impossible that’s ridiculous there’s tons of impossible things and a lot of people have to know their limits or they’re going to ruin their lives but


there are things you can change to your life that are more accessible than you then you’re giving yourself credit for


and um I I do wish people would see that and


I wish I would have seen it much much earlier my father


um I think if he were alive right now in fact I know he would say


I wish I saw that I could have changed things 15 years


earlier like my parents had enough money to like for him to retire when he was in his mid to late 30s


it wasn’t in him to retire I think it ended up killing him but could he have changed the type of work could he have


picked up some different Hobbies like I think he realized too late that he really was


in control of doing things and you see that sometimes where someone goes


you know what I wish I would have done it sooner and here’s the proof that I could have like


some of us wish we could I done something sooner but we actually couldn’t right like me being in the NFL


like yeah yes yes but like you know like okay with me with my son like


I look at my son like I wish I had him 10 years earlier well we we dealt with


infertility and he came exactly when he should have come yeah so um do I wish it yeah I mean in theory


but it’s like I’d spend more time with him but like no like everything happened for a reason do I wish that uh my wife


and I would have structured Our Lives to be more carefree and less reliant on


money earlier yeah for sure and I looked back and I could have and that’s like oh dang it I wish it


would have done it yeah but I don’t know


what do I know yeah we we seriously appreciated the


conversation where it’s been I think Shane and I have learned a ton today for


sure I I want I have one question for you yeah what what is uh what is the one


mistake that you’ve learned the most from I guess and all of your experience


and all of what we’ve talked about today but what is one mistake that you feel like you’ve learned the most from


foreign [Music]


so I don’t have a I don’t have a big defining moment mistake in my life thank


goodness um but if I could go back


and again it’s a it’s something that I really could have done differently yeah


um I would have realized sooner


that that appearing busy has no value in being productive was


just a lot better but the one that really if there’s anything that I ever regret


it is I have made a lot of money for some people that I don’t respect


and I wish I could go back and not have done that I


Justified that because I was put in charge of 95 percent of their people and


I was able to make their lives a lot better yeah but I look back at a few companies I worked at


a few of the founders and I golly I wish that I didn’t yeah I wish I didn’t bring


my skills to their town you know yeah for sure on the other hand man when you when you pick the right person


like there’s some there are some people I could you know I could name like whether it’s Chris Villar and Aaron


Shoemaker and John hanula and Jared chapel and Steve zollman like uh every


dollar I’ve ever made those guys has made me happy I want to make them yeah I freaking love these guys right and


there’s just a few others that I won’t name that I regret that I ever made them a penny yeah but


still it happened I got to be a good leader for other people and I think I don’t regret the experience but yeah um


I looking back I knew that they weren’t good dudes yeah


and I still ignored it and I wish I wouldn’t have yeah but I get that no I


think that that is an important thing to pay attention to um it’s the same with clients yeah right


we deal with that in our space where I have a lot of people that we’ve worked


for where I’ve thought that I wish we didn’t do that yeah I wish we didn’t do that and you learn from it and you make


your business better and you make yourself better through it I think uh yeah over time your business will


improve and you’ll improve as a person through doing that but at the very least we all have I mean we all have a price


at least the very least at least charge them a lot no seriously like like one


last really brief like Mark Singer story my dad has this there was this big Law Firm that was working for one of these


uh Saudi princes and they they they were struggling they came to my dad because my dad was like the LA he’s the guy you


go to when you you’re with the fixer he’s like burn everything to the ground kind of yeah right and he’s like yeah I’m not working for those guys and


they’re like no no he goes okay tell you what they have to pay me this ungodly amount and they have to pay it up front


and uh otherwise and I have to take the lead otherwise I’m not doing it and they’re like no you can’t do that these


you will offend The Prince and he’s like yeah I don’t trust those guys


um I will get the job done but they’re going to pay me an insane amount of money and it’s all up front and you guys


don’t have to get your money up front I don’t really care yeah so he does the job and and then he gets them the other


firm didn’t get paid a dime and he’s not like listen like I didn’t do anything like you know it was a civil procedure


but like no I had a price the price were working that for that dude was like five times my rate and it was in my bank


account before I started and no I don’t feel bad about it right yeah so like you I mean you’re a business owner you have


bills to pay you might have a jerk client just give them the jerk rate yeah and tell your tell your people hey


you’re all getting Chris’s bonuses because that guy got charged the jerk rate and then when we can fire him we’re


gonna fire him yeah like you know I don’t think you have to be like angels all the time but like get paid for


working with jerks yeah sure yeah no I think that’s a good thing I like that and people uh they all wonder why why is


why do I pay so much or why is it so much harder to get a hold of you and why


do I have to work with your team and not you directly you know just the worst but I think uh there’s a lot to learn from


uh what we talked about today and really I think leadership management


understanding expectations within yourself yeah I think setting


expectations with your team yourself um agreements prevent disagreements making sure that we we do all that not


only in business but in our personal lives oh yeah and especially with our people that we love and I think uh


understanding your path you know I I like the phrase most likely because the


e-myth is a book that changed my life back when I read it in school it kind of what got me to drop out uh but it talks


a lot about there’s this myth of Entrepreneurship and it’s the myth that everyone just Dives in and they are


wildly successful at this crazy idea but really uh entrepreneurship or business or career or anything is strategic it


takes time it takes a lot of agreements discipline no matter what you do and they’re still at the end of the day and


most likely yeah sign at the end that says this will most likely work so yes I


think let’s link everything that you have um because I know you have a lot of


graphs and written out things that could really help uh dissect what he talks about I think I need your help with it


too because I’m like dude I’m like I’m old


if anyone’s listening I have lung disease I’m not 87 years old and my son had his first home run last


night so my I’m a little horse but I love that but I’m like a technological dinosaur so like I I have a lot of stuff


I need to get in better so I’m like I need to go Shane because I’m


embarrassing myself here and I really have a lot to offer but if I can’t I’m like taking like Snippets and that’s


like the content I’m providing like your notes gotta be a better way you know I like it but we’ll link everything that


you do have cool um maybe we’ll work on some more stuff and then uh we’ll also link your LinkedIn cool uh because I


think that there’s a ton of value that comes from that a hundred percent and I love the pressure that you apply to a


lot of people’s posts as well you you can find Mark not only in the post but in the comment section uh and I think


that that provides a ton of value when most people on LinkedIn are just sitting there trying to agree yeah guys if I


have one piece of advice on LinkedIn it is when you comment ask questions give


well thought out questions and thoughts yeah because it will start a conversation where you can learn so much


and people will see this guy that had a conversation on LinkedIn with Mark Smith


had really good points and then out of nowhere recruiters are calling you like


don’t just say love it bud just like dig in and really ask those questions press


me if I’m wrong I’m wrong I’d love to learn you know show me new things that you do I mean it is meant to be a place


of networking and learning not just Fanboy stuff like yeah it’s not Instagram yeah no no it’s nothing


well Mark thank you again for the time guys that was fun



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