Introduction:

In episode #7 of the “Scroll Sessions” podcast, hosts Dan Page and Shane Hickenlooper sit down with Mark America Smith to discuss the concepts of a performance mindset and the transformative experience of a radical sabbatical. Smith, known for his unconventional middle name and his insightful thoughts on various topics ranging from politics to workplace dynamics, shares his journey and perspectives.

Where “America” Comes From:

The conversation kicks off with a light-hearted discussion about Smith’s unique middle name. Born Mark Smith Jr., he found his name too generic and eventually embraced “Mark America Smith,” a suggestion from a friend that stuck due to its distinctiveness.

The LinkedIn Influence:

Smith delves into his reasons for choosing LinkedIn as his platform of choice. He recounts an incident where his straightforward post on sales tactics went viral, marking the beginning of his influential presence on the platform. He emphasizes that he posts spontaneously, without a specific strategy, driven by the belief in sharing genuine thoughts and experiences.

Career Insights:

Discussing his career trajectory, Smith highlights the importance of experiential narratives in shaping his perspective. He attributes his observational skills and the ability to narrate experiences to his upbringing and his father’s influence. Smith’s career in sales and operations leadership provided him ample opportunities to learn and grow, both personally and professionally.

The Sabbatical Experience:

One of the episode’s highlights is Smith’s decision to take a sabbatical in Europe. He explains that, despite having a successful career and a comfortable life, he felt the need to explore happiness beyond material achievements. This led him and his family to sell most of their possessions and move to Europe, where they immersed themselves in different cultures and experiences.

Leadership and Management:

Smith shares his views on the difference between being a manager and a leader. He believes that while management is a crucial starting point, true leadership involves a combination of skill, empathy, and a genuine interest in people’s growth. He emphasizes the importance of setting clear expectations, reducing workplace stress, and creating an environment where pressure becomes a performance enhancer rather than a hindrance.

Final Thoughts:

The podcast wraps up with Smith reflecting on his journey, underscoring the importance of making informed choices, especially when it involves working for others. He advises listeners to be mindful of who they align themselves with and to ensure their work aligns with their values.

Conclusion:

Mark America Smith’s journey from a corporate executive to a thoughtful influencer and a seeker of a balanced life offers valuable insights into the importance of self-awareness, continuous learning, and the courage to pursue a fulfilling life. His conversation with Dan Page and Shane Hickenlooper on the “Scroll Sessions” podcast provides a compelling look at the intersections of personal growth, career development, and the pursuit of happiness.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/markasmithjr/

https://markasmithjr.substack.com/

Podcast Transcript

[Music] welcome to scroll sessions everyone again I’m Shane I’m Dan we’re back here

0:07

today we have Mark America Smith and the first question we wanted to ask you was

0:13

where did the America come from well number one I love America but honestly

0:19

um I think I remember but so my name is Mark Smith like crazy boring right like that’s

0:28

generic name but I’m Mark Smith Jr so I love you know I love and I adore my dad rest assol

0:34

but Mark A Smith isn’t also I mean it’s all just very generic and when I when I if you like

0:42

Google Mark A Smith there’s like all these really unimpressive people that have done these things and written these

0:48

terrible books like like legitimately yeah some of the most hilariously bad books ever and I was like ah geez

0:56

one of these days I gotta figure out a different name and a buddy of mine Bo Homestead was like dude you’re just Mark

1:03

America Smith and I was like yeah okay I’ll go with that for a while and then he just kept calling me that and

1:09

everyone did and then one day I was like all right yeah it’s not my name but

1:16

I love it because I feel like it fits your persona online really well because you do you do Advocate I I feel like for

1:24

America a lot but in a less traditional way that you would assume somebody with the middle name America Advocates like

1:31

who wouldn’t advocate for America I mean we’re not perfect I’m not like some you know far left or far right but like

1:38

like we all hit the lottery by being born here yes I did so we’ve got our share of problems but this place is

1:44

pretty sick yeah I know for sure yeah I love that spot and you you talk about a

1:49

lot of topics on LinkedIn I mean anything from politics gender pay Equity

1:55

crisis in Ukraine you name it there’s a lot of stuff why LinkedIn why why was this the platform that you wanted to

2:01

maybe share your story your voice your opinions okay so I’ll tell you the origin story

2:06

so one day I don’t know it was like five years ago

2:12

I was purchasing a piece of software in a space that I I mean it’s it’s something like I don’t know what it’d be

2:18

for you guys but like you know you’re setting up a new a new tech stack and it’s something that you you know you got

2:24

three options you’ve worked in this space for 10 years like and you’re just really quickly figuring out whether there’s any been any changes so I’m

2:31

buying something for my company and uh I’m going back and forth over email with

2:36

an SDR and you know all my questions are answered and I was like hey yeah okay you guys are still the best we’re 99 of

2:43

the way there can we get on a call and just um yeah I got like two questions on the contract it was really about like pay am I gonna pay monthly am I going to

2:50

pay annually and then like is there an evergreen clause so they set up a meeting and I get on

2:56

the SDR who had done all this work says Hey I want to introduce you to Bob and

3:01

John and I was like oh hello who are you and well I’m the account executive

3:06

assigned and and then John’s like well and I’m the vice president and I just really wanted to meet you and I was like

3:11

why he’s like well we want to get to know your business and I was like why

3:18

why and she she already she already did she did a perfect job yeah and they put me through this like half hour of so

3:24

anyway so I get done I you know I still bought it but I like I don’t know I think I was on LinkedIn and I was like

3:29

oh you can do a post like on Facebook yeah and so I just wrote I think it was

3:34

like I’ll never understand why some people don’t know when to shut up and just take the take the sale

3:40

interesting and then I wrote like a quick like this is what just happened in the future

3:45

like don’t do that and I just hit post didn’t think anything of it a few days

3:51

later a colleague’s like hey you’re kind of blowing up and I’m like what does that even mean and I go check it and

3:56

there’s like you know two million hits and there’s like you know all hundreds of comments and all the comments are

4:02

like you know you know like kind of some UPS you know sensitive software yeah for

4:07

people right um but then also people are like who the hell is this guy to drop this bomb on us

4:14

and like not respond to any questions my second thing you’re like I don’t even know how to do this hi everyone I didn’t

4:21

know this was a thing and then that was it and it was like I was like cool so

4:27

and then when I’d have another thought that um I thought maybe people would would benefit from I would just post it yeah

4:33

and people like what’s your strategy I’m like there isn’t one when I when I have a thought and I’m busy I might make a

4:39

quick note on my iPhone I’ll go back and write it later takes me more than three minutes to write it I just won’t write it obviously doesn’t make much sense and

4:46

if I think that I know the topic and I think that I’ve got something to say I post it yeah and uh it seems to have

4:53

worked out I think so that’s it I mean that’s that’s it that’s awesome I think I think that’s it’s good advice for

5:00

anybody wanting to be influential on a platform and just

5:06

start yep just start you know take your thoughts organize them a little bit and just start just get going well it’s a

5:13

very selfish thing so um I like to write yeah and I really

5:18

like that it’s constrained at the time it was like 1200 characters so I like to write and then it would make sure that I

5:25

was you know yeah so that was a really good

5:30

exercise and then um the amount of stuff that I learned like

5:36

is incredible I’m sure there are five or six things that have become a core part of like my personal operating system

5:42

from comments from people saying and I’m just like oh my gosh that’s freaking brilliant you know and so it’s a very

5:49

selfish thing it’s cathartic for me and I also have gotten to learn some amazing

5:55

things from you know interacting with people so give us some background on

6:00

your career because uh obviously the my biggest pet peeve of people like you on

6:07

like are the fact that you can

6:13

without strategy uh think so eloquently and put so eloquently the thoughts in

6:20

your head so frequently where I feel like that happens to me once every six

6:25

months um so I think your life and your background probably gives some insight

6:31

into why you can do that I I it’s a really impressive trait that I don’t think a lot of people

6:38

have I know I don’t have it so what’s what is it about your career that you think LED you to be so observant that

6:45

you can formulate and write this or give some background on your okay so that that okay that’s a really

6:52

important question because I’m not sure this answer is gonna gonna help but when people ask me that question I

6:59

say um I think it’s genetic no no so so when I

7:06

look back at my life um some people have like a photographic

7:11

memory or some other type of memory I don’t know what I have what I what I do know is when I experience something

7:18

in in life my brain is typically created a uh story around it like an ex like I

7:26

it it’s like this thing happened to me my brain will sort of remember what led to it and like you know it’s so my brain

7:33

is always sort of formed these stories within itself and I didn’t know that until people started asking me this

7:39

question I started realizing no I think the reason why is is because my brain

7:44

just happens to do this um the the second thing is

7:49

um I I mean I have actually had a lot of just wild experiences yeah

7:58

um but I I have a hunch that others have as well but because their brain doesn’t think in stories they don’t remember

8:04

them the way that I remember them they don’t connect them the way that I that I that I connect them

8:10

um and so I’m not sure it can be developed other than to say to people be observant if

8:18

something cool happens to you maybe write it down but don’t just say today

8:26

um you know I this thing happened it’s this thing happened this is what led up

8:31

to it this is the people around these are the faces they made you know and start to craft in your head some sort of

8:38

some sort of like narrative right um my dad was always I think probably

8:44

also because my dad everything was a lesson to him like he was so good about taking something and saying you know

8:50

there’s something I want you to learn from this scenario um in terms of my career honestly there’s

8:57

you know I I backed into a sales career I was going to be an attorney my dad was like being an attorney

9:03

is like mostly term papers and kind of sucks when you’re not in court and uh you know I was impressed by him argued

9:10

in front of the Supreme Court trial attorney he’s like yeah but that’s like five percent of the job and so I was

9:15

like okay I guess I’ll be in sales so I ended up being sales and sales leadership and you know I could go deep into that but you know starting off kind

9:22

of crappy then got good and um and have just sort of developed my

9:28

career through sales and operations leadership and when

9:34

you are around so many people and so many people report to you and your brain does

9:41

think in sort of these these experiential narratives well then you you just end up having

9:47

so many things that you can talk about as an object lesson and then and again I I have happened to

9:54

have just like some incredibly yeah like six degrees of seven bacon like or Kevin

10:00

Bacon like did I I got I got four degrees to anything in this world

10:05

um so yeah I love that well and you recently had a sabbatical in Europe kind

10:10

of after I would maybe say like ending your kind of corporate career and all the things

10:16

that you did well I mean why take a sabbatical why what and what have you learned from them yeah especially at you

10:22

know a younger age you’re taking a year off of work did you take a year off or were you still working no no I mean I

10:28

thought I would but yeah undo anything you posted on LinkedIn that was something yeah so yeah so basically what

10:33

happened is is I had just gotten done with kind of a long stint on some extensive Consulting roles and those are

10:41

great because they’re really lucrative and with the right client they’re a blast the downside is as a consultant

10:47

they don’t actually have to do what you encourage them to do yeah so it can be a little bit defeating sometimes and a bit

10:55

frustrating but still life is good and then I had a a role that honestly was a freaking disaster and

11:03

um and I I had one of those like I’m so sick and tired of making money for crappy people yeah and then I was like

11:11

you know what I’ve got a great house and great cars and great neighborhood and

11:18

great friends and most amazing family and I mean everything I could ever want but

11:24

like is this actually is it happy well yeah I mean it’s happy but it’s like is there another way to be happy so I was

11:30

like for sure hey babe we have enough money to like not work if we if we’re

11:36

careful should we just like go to Europe and she’s like yeah okay my wife’s down for anything oh it’s awesome so within I

11:43

don’t know 60 days we were gone I remember we went to lunch and you brought it up as this thought yeah you

11:50

thought you were like hey I have this role right now uh but yeah I might go to Europe yeah basically we’re like do you

11:56

want to do it and she’s like yeah okay and within 60 days we had all of our possessions down to like an eight foot

12:02

wow storage unit we literally did you sell everything we sold we sold a ton and then towards the end we’re like ah

12:09

screw it so we just told all of our friends just coming to like just come and take everything and so we kept our

12:15

piano so we we took our grand piano and had a friend put it at their house so it’d stay climate controlled yeah and

12:22

then we kept like I mean only the most important things to us your house did you keep your house no

12:28

sold the house sold out of astronomical prize yeah like don’t get

12:33

me started on that like well you probably saw that in the best time possible no but don’t get me started

12:39

don’t get me started because if I’m prideful about anything I sell houses for more than anyone we have some

12:45

mortgage industry backgrounds well no I just haven’t I have a I have

12:52

the market was hot but I sold my house for 40 higher price per square foot geez

12:58

than all of the comps yeah wow like it was it was ungodly and I just tell you exactly why and I can tell you why every

13:06

realtor in Daybreak Utah hates my guts um

13:13

like a 40 page article yeah yeah yes it is it’s you know again we don’t have to

13:19

go into it but if you have any idea how that corrupt disgusting industry works and

13:27

you have a background in understanding incentives you can rig the system in your favor and just completely wipe like

13:35

wipe the mat with anybody we sold it for I mean again

13:41

41 more than than the comps the best realtors in the neighborhood you know or

13:47

like your house is worth this and we’re like no we’re going to get much more and they think you’re ego they just think

13:52

it’s ego no way you’re going to sell it for yeah and they’re like what in the world just happened like well I used

13:58

your perverse incentives I turned the industry against you I used it for myself and if you’re smart you’ll learn

14:05

from me and use it to your advantage but instead you just don’t like me that’s okay yeah I don’t mind I’m in Europe

14:10

yeah yeah exactly I’m in my apartment in Rome life is fine yeah so taking that

14:16

sabbatical for a year and you your experience prior was sales cro really

14:23

high-end sales leadership which is in operations yeah most people think of sales but um

14:29

um people management okay yeah I mean I’ve I’ve employed I don’t know thousands of people whether it’s sales

14:35

customer experience sex any anything uh call center based I’ve done on some

14:41

outside and some retail and stuff like that but mostly in office sales and operations because sales is very much

14:47

probably one of the most high stress high pressure uh Industries and you’re

14:54

leading thousands of people throughout the year so you went through high pressure high quotas constantly getting

15:02

hit up by top leadership and then pushing down to your teams uh into a

15:09

sabbatical in Europe what was that shift like uh easiest thing in the world it really was it’s bad so I you know I

15:17

talk a lot about stress versus pressure and briefly stress stress is always scientifically it is a performance

15:24

inhibitor pressure for the right people is a performance enhancer stress is when you have a really big

15:31

project uh goal whatever it may be but you lack one or more of the following personal

15:38

competence uh belief in your competence

15:43

organizational competence or belief in the organizational competence if you lack one of those four

15:49

uh or you have one of those four you’re going to be stressed press search now now pressure is when you have the exact

15:55

same huge goal but you you know you have the skills you believe in your skills you know your organization’s giving you

16:01

the tools and you believe the organizations on the like I I got really

16:06

good at uh in fact it’s like one of the biggest things I tell my like work with my clients we remove all stress and

16:13

there’s there’s ways to do that and then we apply pressure and for the right people pressure I mean you’re going to

16:21

set record after record some people will struggle Under Pressure but that’s it’s actually a decent way to to help them

16:27

find that they’re they’re not in the right industry right but I had built my career my organizations

16:35

to be full of positive pressure and without any stress whatsoever and that last role

16:42

that I took was was such a ludicrous amount of nonsense stress that when I did when it

16:51

was over I was like I’m out of here like it was so easy just to like simply like walk away and

16:58

um it is it is weird though to be like in retirement or semi-retirement earlier than you thought

17:04

and there’s downsides to it like you know if you retire at like 43 but none

17:10

of your friends do it’s freaking boring yeah no kidding so so it’s nice to like you know move to Europe and give our son

17:16

this experience and give my I mean we were with each other 24 hours a day and just like you know we’ve always had a

17:23

wonderful family but just like really connect and then use you know also teach him

17:31

through live experience and not just like a textbook right yeah and

17:36

um I mean granted like I’m not necessarily going to tutor him in math

17:41

um but you know going through these experiences throughout Europe and teaching him about

17:47

life in slightly uncomfortable scenarios was was absolutely Priceless well then I

17:55

think you’re right that it is genetic because it sounds like your dad loved to teach you make everything a lesson right

18:02

and that’s a very similar structure to what it sounds like you’re doing with your son how old’s your son he just

18:08

turned 11. um he’s just he’s just wonderful I you know he I think we’ve done a good job raising

18:15

him but I think he was always going to be an amazing kid but you know to your

18:20

point like you know I I appreciate you mentioning that because I uh and I I hope your your viewers your

18:30

listeners don’t take this the wrong way like I’m some sort of like pompous jackass but you brought it up like

18:37

my I’ve been able to structure my life right now to do what I want to do and what I like

18:43

to do is is serve people and I specifically like to serve youth

18:48

um and it is worked out really nicely that I am

18:54

like my natural inclination is to not tell somebody what to do

18:59

but to illustrate something yeah and help them see it and then my my background in like sales and operations

19:05

I mean if you properly train and Coach somebody you’re going to explain a concept and you’re going to demonstrate

19:11

the concept and you’re going to help them experience it and so it makes it like makes me pretty effective at

19:18

helping helping kids especially ones that other people have not been able to

19:23

help um and I feel really blessed that I you

19:29

know was raised a certain way but also my career uh you know taught me

19:35

how to properly Implement change and especially during very difficult scenarios and so it’s it’s it served me

19:43

really well in life whether it’s with my son or with other kids that we work with to be able to

19:50

um to teach them things that set in and they really really learn

19:56

it’s not facts we don’t teach facts we teach observation we teach

20:01

Concepts and we teach like seeing seeing these Concepts in the

20:07

world around you and when you can when you start having you know your son or your

20:13

the struggling teenagers that you work with like my wife and I have taken in several to live with us and

20:18

or you know I volunteer most days in the in the school district when they start

20:24

coming to you and explaining something in uh in a descriptive experiential way

20:32

you’re like oh my gosh like you’re it they got it and I didn’t even teach them that they they s they saw me

20:39

do something and saw me working with this group and then they learned that

20:45

and then they they sort of taught themselves yeah and it’s the most exciting it’s the most exciting thing

20:52

um doesn’t pay well I mean voluntary voluntary Advanced garbage

20:58

um tax write-off I guess but it’s no it really is the greatest thing to just be able to like

21:03

I feel very blessed that my life has has turned into

21:09

getting back I don’t even know like I know again this sounds like I enjoy it yeah it’s not

21:16

like yeah there’s no burden to me yeah it’s what you like to do I love doing it it keeps you fulfilled it’s like you

21:24

have your your mission at this point now and I used to believe I loved doing it because they paid me lots of money to do

21:29

it and of course you know it was enjoyable but it’s like it was enjoyable but I can make lots of money for sure

21:36

and again I don’t want to be this this pompous jackass like but I’ll just I trust you guys won’t take it that way

21:42

but like you know you know a bit of my like we moved to Europe and got ourselves this

21:47

amazing apartment in Rome and we’re just getting like fat and sassy and the war breaks out yeah you get involved everyone’s like okay so you’re coming

21:54

home and we’re like no I think we’re just gonna ditch our house in Roam and like head to the war and we first decided you know why don’t

22:02

we take some budget and pay for one family to relocate make sure they’re okay and then

22:08

um and then some other people got involved and started to donate money and

22:13

then anyways like like we’ve gone way past that GoFundMe you know we we had all

22:19

these all these friends were like well geez if you’re there we were thinking how can we help yeah but we didn’t want

22:25

to just like donate to the Red Cross but like you’re there and we’re like yeah we’re like we’re here on the ground we’re like oh my gosh like we’re like

22:31

yeah every dollar you spend like we will will put it to work and so these donations roll in and um but then like

22:39

you know I’m not gonna keep asking for donations so at some point um you know my wife and I it’s just like

22:46

all right well we’ll just we’re gonna go beyond one family so we just keep like you know we keep writing checks and the

22:52

reason I bring this up is because again like in my career it was like I love helping people and I love that I get

22:58

paid a lot of money to do it and then um I know I like donating to charity to

23:04

kind of like you know help out whether it’s my church or local community but there’s something about her that it was

23:10

always like you know it feels like a sacrifice and then you end up in a war zone and you look at like it was this

23:18

like pretty spiritual moment where we were about to leave Romania and we’re

23:24

we’re we just got back from um from transporting this this family

23:30

um this Widow and her three daughters who had just spent like four days trying to get out of the country and we had

23:36

just transported them to to their new home and in um outside of Bucharest and we were driving back to Art we lived

23:43

in a hotel so we didn’t take up space in this house we bought out and at the same time my wife and I just

23:49

said hey I don’t think we’re done yet and that was my son’s like what we’re

23:54

like we’ll talk but we just were like well we’re just gonna we’re just gonna stay and we’re just in in so

24:01

you go from this thing where it’s like you know back in the U.S you feel like you’re sacrificing to like donate to

24:07

some charity or whatnot and then you get there and you you see people dealing with this

24:13

and you’re like it’s nothing to do now it’s a freaking blast like you know how much how much more do we need like tell

24:20

me how much to send like it my I don’t even I don’t even know like we haven’t

24:25

even like figure out a full damn numbers yeah but my retirement might be over like I might actually have to go back to

24:32

work but but but it doesn’t like it is and again that sounds like I’m being

24:38

like boastful I’m just telling you people are like oh that’s so great like no I

24:43

I believe that anybody if they were already in Europe and went

24:49

to go meet with these people going I believe you’re doing the exact same thing yeah and you’d realize that oh my

24:56

gosh when it’s like Hands-On for people who need it the most sacrificing anything it’s like the most enjoyable

25:01

thing in the world to take what you’ve been blessed to to earn and just freaking give it all away yeah you know

25:07

that’s super fulfilling I don’t doubt it and then you actually realize it wasn’t that hard to make the money I can just

25:13

go make more but like when you think that way um it’s just it’s like it’s fun to help

25:21

people hence the middle name Mark America because the opportunity that is

25:27

presented here right you have recognized it as a blessing I think that’s one

25:32

thing that I’m taking from what you’re saying is that you’re just there noticing that uh everything you’ve been

25:37

given is this position not everyone’s been granted right you were born in America you were given opportunity you

25:45

were able to make a lot of money through your opportunity and then as you went overseas it was almost like seeing

25:52

someone trip on the street you see him trip you’re just gonna stop and say hey I can help you because I have legs and

25:58

hands and arms and I yes I can help lift you up now where that’s kind of how you felt about being in this situation with

26:05

the war in Ukraine you’re like I I have hands and arms I have the money I have the resources because of where I’ve been

26:12

and I I can help you that’s what it just felt natural to you to do yeah and to take to take that back to I guess

26:19

your you have a new book coming out do you feel like that just what he said is

26:24

the difference between a manager and a leader do you feel like leaders actually like genuinely give back and managers

26:32

just manage well so there’s nothing wrong with being a manager a manager is typically how you start and I think if

26:38

you learn the skills of being a manager and you get those down and then you also

26:44

have a good heart and a good mind and and can be observational really care about people

26:50

um that that starting point of being a good manager you can then you can then be a good leader probably not gonna be a

26:57

good one right away there’s a lot of mistakes we make you know um and that’s why I’m trying to write

27:03

this you know publish this book is like I don’t want to take away you know any pain that somebody has in

27:09

their first role but like I at least am going to try to make sure that you don’t have to do some of the really stupid

27:14

silly stuff that I did but yes I think sometimes we and there’s I don’t this isn’t a

27:21

judgment on anything as an American we forget um that we hit like the genetic Lottery

27:28

and even me I’m like the poster child of it you know like you know intact families Southern Orange County like

27:34

attorney stay-at-home mother you know I’m I’m a guy I’m white I have a decent face decent mind I could play sports

27:41

like what’s really in the way of my of My Success but but as Americans most of

27:47

us are born with that now Europe is also a really amazing place and frankly we should adopt a lot of the things they do

27:53

but um in the united in your in your own Zone

27:58

in your own whether it’s in your church or in your you know family or your little league or your community things

28:04

start to start to get sort of transactional right where you’re like this person needs some help I will

28:10

donate to this and somebody will take care of that yeah and there’s nothing wrong with that there’s nothing wrong with that at all yeah

28:17

but then there there are people my mom’s one of these I think I learned from her

28:24

um the importance of taking action but then there are those who take it a step

28:30

further and say you know the transactional stuff’s being taken care of but

28:35

like someone has to go get this done someone needs to go actually it’s on the ground give somebody a hug and like you

28:42

know transport them someplace and and and that’s what was was really a

28:47

blessing about being in Europe in that war zone was there’s nothing transactional about it like

28:55

you know we got uh so we we bought out this bed and breakfast and and we started transporting refugees there and

29:02

it’s all women and children because the men really can’t leave unless you’re elderly you can’t leave Ukraine and when

29:07

we got there there was families already there and

29:12

I don’t want to choke up but like you see kids in the in the in the

29:18

backyard playing and then you see a baby who hasn’t had a

29:23

new diaper in four days and you see some women that are doing okay but they’re stressed out and you

29:31

see some women that are in the corner literally shaking from PTSD

29:36

and you just look around and you just have to calm yourself and say okay

29:41

it’s time to act it’s not transactional anymore this has to get done there are humans right here

29:50

and actually it was very hard to get them to accept our help and I had to be sort of like

29:58

you know direct at some point where I got my Google translate out and was like

30:03

we know that that you were thriving humans a

30:09

month ago we know that you don’t want to be in this situation we know that you don’t want charity yeah but you’re here

30:16

and you need our help yeah and you’re going to take it so get your stuff in 15

30:21

minutes we’re going to the mall yeah and then we go and my wife’s like okay you

30:27

go take a walk and then check back in two hours and then she like you know takes them shopping and we load

30:32

everything up and then you just and then everything starts to to come together

30:38

and it’s not transactional it’s this child needs this let’s work with

30:44

them this family needs this this city just got you know bombed they need food like

30:50

watching my wife in action was unbelievable I mean my wife should be the CEO of a fortunate she’s she’s

30:56

unreal I don’t even know some of the stuff she’s done I find out later you know she’s like oh look at this video of

31:02

this city in northeastern Ukraine I’m like oh okay who are they and she’s like oh I found

31:08

out the other day that the Russians spoiled their water took all their food and and uh they hadn’t eaten in a week

31:14

so I um I coordinated five trucks and then I found some guys to get it over

31:19

the border and then some other guys to pick up the trucks and then we had to bribe these guys and we’d got in there

31:25

and so they like these 11 000 people this is like a video they sent me this video and I’m just like you did that and

31:32

she’s like yeah and by the way you need to transfer some money I’m like okay so no but it’s like it’s like it’s it’s you

31:39

got to put yourself like there’s nothing wrong again with being it’s actually saying you know I have other focuses and

31:44

I but but I want to generously donate to this charity of my choice that’s great most people don’t even do that

31:51

but it at some point in your life like go do something where it’s not

31:58

transactional and you’re just immersed in it and you’ll realize that there’s no sacrifice in it you’re having like

32:05

you’re having the greatest Human Experience it happens to be helping them when you get past that initial where

32:12

you’re all you’re doing is helping them yeah then it then that turns into a relationship and now you have all these

32:19

new friends yeah and then you learn like we just celebrated Eastern Orthodox Easter even though I’m not Eastern

32:24

Orthodox why because their Easter was the most their Easter was most beautiful thing I’ve

32:30

ever seen in my life and so now my family we celebrate Eastern Orthodox Easter and so you end up going from

32:37

transactional to just like fully immersed with these lifelong friendships that started based on a need for help

32:42

and now they’ve turned into just people who love each other and um

32:49

in and I fully believe that if one day I was stuck in Eastern Europe and I made

32:55

one phone call I I have 300 Ukrainian friends like showing up to help me out

33:01

because they’re such amazing people and we are friends it’s pretty awesome like my wife talks to them every day you know

33:07

so I feel like when it comes to the service and or just working with people

33:15

and there isn’t money involved at least there’s no money being given to you for

33:21

profit um it’s different than when you’re in a work environment right like one thing that I thought of is how do I how do I

33:28

make my relationships at work less transactional and more like how do I

33:33

actually serve the people that I work with it that seems like a really hard thing to do since there’s so much work

33:40

is surrounded by money you know it’s not necessarily welfare for the most part so how do we

33:46

how do we uh make as a leader right like I jumped into a leadership role out of

33:53

me just creating it myself and calling myself one yeah um

33:58

but now that I have people that I’m responsible for I wonder how to make it

34:04

less transactional but without saying hey you know we’re all a family you know yeah because we’re not a family right

34:10

yeah because we’re not we’re not yeah um although I do think some work

34:15

relationships are better than a lot of family relationships depends on how dysfunctional your family no they’re

34:21

straight up people that are like uh no this this is like way way better than my family right yeah

34:27

so I can only speak from my experience which again is running large sales on sales and operations teams and we have

34:34

lots of metrics and but what what I’ve found is and I got to make sure I say

34:40

this the right way but if if you start with like the short Sprint of total micromanagement and I’ll

34:48

explain you can get past all the transactional stuff immediately so you know when I

34:55

when I take on a new company or a new employee like I give them a document

35:01

that looks like I’m look like I’m insane in fact I just put you guys could look on substack today right it’s like Hey

35:08

listen you’re gonna you’re gonna think I’m weird but read this and master this and you will feel total freedom it is

35:14

these are our working hours you are not to work outside working hours you are not to ask any of your colleagues to

35:21

work outside working hours unless it’s an emergency by the way these are the three emergencies they never happen and

35:29

then and then it’s this is how I want you to communicate slack for this email for this

35:35

um if you send an email and it’s addressed to me I will respond within eight business hours if it’s not you

35:42

know addressed to me don’t expect any response from me I literally go through everything on what

35:49

they should and should be if you’re on vacation you are not to work if someone’s on vacation you are not to ask

35:55

them to work if they if they work for one minute then they don’t have to use that as a

36:01

vacation day and and I go through all of this and so they know okay these are the rules of the road you know we set up

36:08

like non-distraction hours great that’s how we operate as an organization then for each of them I

36:15

have an expectations document that again is like dude this is like the most micromanaged thing ever it is

36:21

it’s me telling you exactly what I expect of you yeah exactly what the

36:28

definition of all that is and exactly what you can expect from me in return and then we we discuss it we

36:35

make changes accordingly because and I could do an actual organization yeah I can do an hour on this but like

36:41

literally every every dysfunction in in business and in life comes down to one of three things

36:47

um unknown expectations and or unrealistic expectations and or unmet expectations so what I do with

36:54

communication and you know uh with what they’re expected in their role and whatnot is I tell them exactly what’s

37:02

expected I explain why I explained to them why it’s

37:08

reasonable why why it’s it’s it’s based on real data and these are the resources

37:14

and and if they don’t agree then oh my gosh okay and we we have a conversation but within a few days of you working

37:21

with me you’re gonna understand I I know I know what suspected me then I give you

37:27

what’s called an autonomy document you’re like geez another document yes and I what I do is I write out

37:35

this is these are your guard rooms if you fit Within These guardrails you can

37:41

do literally whatever you want you do not ask didn’t you ask for approval in fact I’m going to get annoyed if you come and ask me for

37:47

approval because the document says you don’t need it and this is for me saving my time and I tell them exactly how if

37:55

they stay Within These bands um and they’re they’re accomplishing certain things they can do whatever they

38:01

want whatever risks whatever expenses whatever it is and once we we go through that over our

38:07

first couple days it’s the end of the transactions yeah at that

38:13

point like I don’t use Pips I don’t use performance Improvement plans

38:18

you’re always expected to improve you’re going to improve because we’re going to work together every day and when I see

38:24

that you need to improve on something I’ll get in there with you and Coach you on it you know the only time anybody ever gets

38:31

something from me is I give them something called a letter of concern which says hey you know I’m concerned as

38:36

you know this is what’s expected and and you failed to meet some of these expectations that’s it signed mark

38:44

and they say was this a pip no you’re everyone’s on the PIP at all times

38:49

everything is like you’re always expected to improve but we improve by

38:54

working together on this it’s not transactional it’s it’s it’s collaborative so no one has to ask

39:02

me if they’re doing a good job like you know if you’re doing a good job it’s like we provide all the dashboards and

39:07

everything and and if they if they if they want to know I say hey am I doing something wrong like why do you feel

39:14

insecure because based on what I’ve given you you’re you’re doing an amazing job yeah have I

39:22

you know have I broken trust or you know whatever it may be and so honestly if

39:27

you just set the guidelines early micromanage that for like two days of

39:33

their career or per quarter or whatever it is and then you walk in and your agenda as

39:40

a leader is um who do I need to support today so I

39:47

look at my dashboards I look at my project schedules and I say what is uh

39:52

what’s within the reason like within limits of normal okay I don’t need to worry about that

39:59

uh meaning it’s maybe it’s slightly off off Pace or it’s slightly above Pace but you know whatever yeah and then I then I

40:06

go okay what’s abnormally but you know below Pace I say okay I need to address

40:12

that and then what’s abnormally above base because I need to learn about that because that’s not always good and so

40:19

but but if it’s if it is good and it’s repeatable and well I really want to know what’s going on I want to write a

40:24

bigger check like you know so so but it really is all about just me looking at

40:30

the numbers and and project plans and saying okay so what as a leader what am I doing today well it looks like so and

40:36

so needs some help so I go up to them and it’s it’s not sell more it’s hey you’re doing awesome

40:43

in this this and this I’m telling you what’s what’s going on here you know what and they might give you an explanation okay so there’s nothing to

40:49

worry about well can I help you today can I sit with you can I coach you can I call your client you know

40:54

they say no I’m good okay no problem then you move on to the next one yeah and it just becomes this thing where

41:00

you’re you’re constantly um leading because they’re managing themselves now I tell people

41:08

um if if you don’t micromanage yourself I’ll freaking do it for you and you’re

41:14

not going to enjoy it but like I gave I gave you these I gave you these documents we had these meetings where as

41:20

long as you do these things do these things you you can like you have all the

41:25

freedom in the world I don’t care when you show up I don’t care when you leave and I and I’ve specifically said

41:31

I want no work done outside of work hours um

41:37

you don’t impress me by sending me an email at midnight in fact the fact it bugs the crap out of me

41:43

why are you laughing because free people hitting me up no but I like like you should see this but you’ll be like dude

41:49

like I literally put like do not send an email after 6 00 pm

41:55

like use delayed delivery don’t send it unless it’s an emergency somebody has to

42:00

be dying call 9-1-1 then call me yeah uh there’s a data breach call the CTO then

42:07

let me know there’s a massive employee walkout oh we’re screwed anyway but let me know other than that there are no

42:14

emergencies there aren’t any yeah people can chill and wait I would love oh I feel like we could talk for days

42:24

this is something that we uh have faced in our world so I have so many questions

42:31

yeah one would be as a leader uh you don’t a lot of leadership roles they

42:39

don’t necessarily know how to do uh the tasks of the employees that they lead

42:44

right yeah so an example of that would be myself uh I have a we have a web

42:50

design team we have an SEO team we have a paid ads team I’m dangerous enough in all of them yeah

42:57

um expert in few so our web design team for example uh it’s very easy for them

43:05

to get overwhelmed uh and as a leader it’s hard for me to go and turn to them

43:11

and say how can I help you today so what would be your response to that how could a leader help in departments where they

43:17

don’t necessarily know how to do the job and you could also roast me and tell me I should just know how to do his job no no no no no so so at least five guiding

43:25

principles and one of them is credibility so in my world that’s generally easier to do I I tell people

43:32

you will never work for somebody who hasn’t done your job or isn’t still willing to do your job we may have done

43:38

15 years ago but when I ask you to cold call I’ve made more cold calls than you now in other areas especially as you get

43:45

into a series of stuff yeah there I have run departments where I I know nothing about what they do and it is not really

43:52

a good use of my time to try to go in and be that guy who like learns how to do it yeah what what I do learn though

43:59

is uh I I learn from other people okay in a

44:05

well-functioning web design Department what does it look

44:10

like in terms of like work schedules how many meetings they have you know how

44:16

many Sprint but yeah I kind of get a sense for what a properly functioning low stress environment is by maybe

44:22

meeting with other companies other companies and just really kind of stress checking like hey I’ve got developers

44:28

working all hours of the day or I’ve got you know 15 meetings a day and people say yeah it’s really not how it works so

44:34

so I learned how it should work and then again I go set those those expectations

44:40

of you know listen I’m not I’m not impressed with you

44:46

working 14 hours a day I never asked you to do it and I don’t know why you’re doing it

44:52

nevertheless I’ve given you the autonomy you know

44:58

based on these goals if someone says and you you have to trust you they can

45:03

tell you the truth someone might say you know what I worked the first three hours of the day and then I basically do

45:08

nothing for like seven and then I like really heat up again creatively at 8 pm and I worked okay cool

45:15

thanks for letting me understand I don’t have to go worry about you that you’re like working 18 hours a day because

45:20

you’re not right now now the spouse might assume that though because they go home and work yes and so we might like

45:27

you know we might have those conversations where someone says you know I’m really struggling at home well let’s talk about the decisions you’ve

45:33

made about your work schedule or I might have to say to somebody Hey listen you are part of a team

45:40

and you may not like the term but you are a subordinate part of this team

45:46

and you you have a very unique schedule that does not align with the rest of your team

45:52

um I can either ask 12 people to align with you or I can ask you to align with

45:58

them and it’s not like being a leader always like I’m not trying to tell people like

46:03

if you follow what I do no one will ever be mad at you no sometimes people are pissed at like yeah it’s like well

46:10

your inability to work with your team based on a very misaligned something is

46:17

is just not fitting in well right but if you just again start with basic concepts of I don’t expect 12 hours of work a day

46:25

um your colleagues are not expected to respond to you before this and after

46:31

this um when we tell you what projects need to be done those are the only ones I expect

46:38

to be done I don’t need extra things you know and and you have these check-ins like so why are we why are we

46:45

behind on this well working on this okay so that really wasn’t on the list

46:50

why is that being worked overwhelmed you know I think it’s an overwhelmed isn’t always an

46:56

excuse it can sometimes be true and as a leader it’s hard for me to know when somebody’s being truthful about being

47:03

overwhelmed or if they’re actually just disorganized or if it’s true that I’m

47:08

overwhelming them and giving them too much I it it can be really hard to find that so so go back to what we talked

47:16

about with stress and pressure so so let’s say you have somebody that’s overwhelmed okay

47:21

um you can you can well I might go further back and say the

47:27

dysfunction is because of unknown unrealistic or unmet expectations right is there anything I’ve expected that I

47:33

expected them that they don’t know about is there anything that they expect of me that I don’t know about okay I gotta fix

47:38

that by the way this framework doesn’t mean that all your problems are solved it means you can diagnose and start the

47:45

second one is have I given this person an unrealistic expectation and and the third one is you know are

47:51

they known and realistic or they’re just not meeting them and that causes them stress then you go to that stress framework which is when somebody is

47:59

stressed they they lack personal competency so is this person overwhelmed

48:05

because they they actually don’t have this skill okay uh maybe they lied to us in the interview they really don’t know

48:11

how to do this you know development that could be very possible the second one is do they have the skill but they have a

48:17

crisis confidence and for some reason they don’t they there’s things around them that are making them doubt whether

48:23

they have that skill so it causes them stress third thing is does the organization have competency

48:29

and is providing them with the right tools to do it and the fourth one is

48:35

does that person know that and believe in that right yeah so you take that overwhelmed person and you say okay

48:41

there is an unknown expectation one way or the other

48:47

or there’s an unrealistic expectation one way or the other because I already know the expectation

48:53

is not being met he or she is already not meeting them yeah so I have to figure out whether it’s an a known issue

48:58

or realistic issue and by the way realistic it can be objectively realistic but if they don’t believe it’s

49:05

realistic it ain’t realistic and you might have to convince them then you say all right that’s the hard part yeah it

49:12

is the hard part but that’s why when you start early so I wish I had it in front of me but I just worked client through

49:18

this and I said this is how I would roll out

49:23

um like a a quarterly Target for your your VP of sales I would start and say I

49:31

expect of you you know gross new revenue of whatever one million dollars in

49:37

quarter one next column this expectation is aligned with this

49:44

company goal okay third column this is why this company

49:49

goal is important where the sales team you know we we have to make sales but in

49:54

addition to just make more money if we hit this it gets us to this and this okay

49:59

fourth why is this realistic what is this based on what data points

50:05

well and I we explained like a paragraph form it is in Q2 you guys did nine

50:12

hundred thousand dollars of sales you had 10 reps five were seasoned five were

50:17

rookies you had this many leads per rep we list those things in Q3 you have 12

50:25

reps 10 are seasoned two are new

50:30

um there’s no no data point that says we’re not going to get the same leads per rep or there’s going to be a worse lead mix

50:38

we have not changed pricing we have added to the product without changing pricing

50:45

and and you so this is why this is completely realistic so like you know the next column is now this is what you

50:51

can expect of me this is what I’m committing to you you will have this this this this this and this

51:00

and then we explain by the way if we fail to provide those things

51:07

um none of us gets to say oh dang it we missed our number because we blame each other

51:12

we are still as a group we are still expected to hit this number but understand if we fail in one of

51:20

these regards I as your leader I’m going to have to figure out a way to compensate and then you might have to

51:27

meet me halfway to compensate because we’ve got to go to it right and then I sit down I provide it to them

51:34

and then we meet a day later and we walk through it and and we say so

51:40

you know and like you’re going to be hung to this number so

51:46

um you need to speak up let’s walk through this and some might say no there’s honestly there’s that

51:54

I understand okay you understand no no repeat it back to me what yeah is this realistic do you really do you really

51:59

understand do you believe this do you have any doubts at all am I missing something like has there been a shift in

52:04

anything that I’m not seeing yeah let’s collaborate let’s collaborate well actually two of my veterans might be

52:10

quitting okay they’re disengaged have they quit yet no are they upset they’re not upset but you know they’re

52:16

considering you know this other company okay let’s work on that okay yeah

52:23

um but then we we iron it all out and then we’re like okay and we do that for each expectation we say okay we’re good

52:29

all right so it’s known and then we have I literally haven’t sign it then I send it a DocuSign and

52:36

then I email it I love it right you are partial lawyer well it’s just like let’s but no it’s just acknowledging you like

52:42

actually putting the paper that you’re saying agreements prevent disagreements yes like yes good it’s like

52:48

because if you ever have that person under serious stress who says well I really know you go

52:55

hey I see that you’re under stress and we’re going to talk about that and

53:01

I’m going to do whatever I can to remove that but you cannot look at me in the eye and

53:07

tell me that you did not know this is an expectation yeah and they say well okay you’re right good let’s not do that to

53:15

each other yeah let’s talk about what’s really going on has something changed

53:21

well I’m really struggling with my skills okay let’s work on or you know what you know I’m not you

53:28

know what’s something whatever but if you if you make those things super clear and then again you provide

53:35

like by the way this is what you’re allowed to do without even asking me permission this is your autonomy document and so you’re

53:42

freed up to do those things and and this is well I’m stressed about all these

53:47

meetings okay who’s violating the meeting culture

53:52

well so and so honestly keeps holding hour-long meetings and then starting late and and it’s like okay I’ll go talk

53:59

to them because no like that that is a serious problem we committed to you that we would not waste your time and get in

54:05

the way of you meeting your goals so I’m going to look at everyone’s calendar I’m going to go see if anyone’s

54:12

lacking an agenda or a definition of success and if they are I’m deleting it and I’ll deal with them and if you get

54:18

to a meeting and so that’s scheduled for an hour and someone says hey we’re only going to need 15 minutes you have my

54:24

permission to leave and say reschedule it for 15 minutes you know like we are rigorous about this and

54:31

some people think it’s crazy and then once they get used to it like no it’s the most freeing thing ever can’t do it

54:36

the other way we have fewer meetings we have less distractions no one’s allowed to talk to me during deep work no one’s

54:43

allowed to just pop into my office we don’t ever schedule catch-ups or you

54:48

know it’s like well we can catch-up is like I’d like to get to know you better good that’s the agenda the

54:55

agenda is we’re going to take a walk and we’re going to get to know each other better I’d really like to know about your goals we don’t just do like when

55:02

you get rigorous about those things you learn it quick then when somebody is overwhelmed again

55:09

you go back to your framework is an expectations issue or is it a stress or pressure issue now by the way sometimes

55:18

you are going to find an overwhelmed person and the expectations are going to be known and they’re going to be completely

55:25

realistic they’re going to be unmet and the person is going to be feeling

55:30

a a a ton of stress and it is going to reveal and and you can’t fix it

55:36

and it’s going to reveal this person it just you just can’t have them on the team right yeah and then in some cases

55:42

you don’t even have stress but the pressure causes them to

55:48

completely melt down again that that can be a problem in like a startup or a high high a fast-moving

55:56

environment a sales team but the framework allows you to figure out like what what is the source of this

56:03

and I can get to this pretty quick right and it works in family too like not to go off the rails but like

56:11

you know if somebody comes to me and says hey man can I talk to you I’m struggling at home what are you struggling with well you

56:18

know um my my wife doesn’t want to have kids oh my gosh is that really hard for you

56:24

yes I really want to have them when you were dating did she want to no she never wanted to have kids

56:29

oh um what made you think that was gonna result in a wife that wanted to have

56:35

kids I just figure every woman wants to have that okay so um unmet expectations

56:41

okay so you so you had a known expectation and and that she didn’t want to have

56:46

kids and that you created a you created an expectation that she was

56:51

going to that was completely unrealistic yeah uh this is you man this is not on

56:57

her yeah well what am I supposed to do I don’t know maybe get divorced I don’t know I can’t solve your problem but

57:02

don’t tell me that you don’t know where this where this is originating that’s where it’s coming from like it works I’ve yet to find anybody to be like what

57:09

about this situation it will be an it will be one of the following unknown unrealistic or unmanned expectations

57:15

yeah and then you can decide how to fix it so how do you deal with I think

57:21

the the hard thing for me is uh there’s discipline and there’s motivation right

57:27

it’s really easy as a leader to be motivated to want to follow these principles

57:34

um and you start implementing them you know you get DocuSign you make sure that everyone agrees and then you put it into

57:41

practice and this is year over year day after day how do you stay disciplined

57:47

instead of motivated to following this to a T is there more to that okay so you

57:53

have to be self-aware and you might be the problem and that’s okay that’s okay so you just address it right so I always

57:59

tell people like when I was a kid I grew up in the same house um each of us had our own rooms

58:05

and uh but like every year we’d switch rooms because it would make you feel like you had a new rumor you know and I

58:12

would move everything um perfectly in like an hour and then about

58:18

um seven little bits and bobbles would sit in the corner for exactly one year and I would never put them away and I

58:24

always thought that was weird and then I realized like even in my career I can take things 97 of the way there

58:31

but I have this uh this weird little thing about the like doing the final detail and so what I have to have is

58:38

somebody on my team who um who can do it or can walk in and say put your computer down put your phone

58:45

down you are signing these things and I’m like okay and I do it right so you

58:51

you wanna you know you want to be the best version of yourself but you have you also have to have a proper expectation of what you bring to the

58:56

table if you’re if you’re a Visionary you’re likely going to struggle with details so

59:02

you you need to have somebody who can bring that discipline and details you know to the table with you

59:09

um but whatever you commit to you just gotta understand that when you commit to

59:14

it you got to stick it through and so if you can’t commit to a lot of things just don’t commit to

59:21

it don’t make commitments commit to commit to only good things yeah and only

59:27

things that you can actually execute on and then if you can add somebody to the team they can add those good things

59:34

because they’re incredibly disciplined about those things then that’s great but

59:39

you’re better off doing less and doing it in a disciplined way discipline builds companies I mean

59:46

motivation you know might break a monthly sales record but discipline is what builds companies right and so you

59:54

just kind of have to know yourself I know myself I know certain things that I simply can’t get done without my wife

1:00:01

and and I know things about my wife that she will not do unless I literally like

1:00:06

pick her up and and later she like thanks me oh thank you for getting me through that yeah

1:00:12

um same thing with coaching kids like I ask them for like three things

1:00:18

that that you know there is no reason at all they can’t do

1:00:25

that right and then we do those over and over and over again so every day at practice they

1:00:32

have been perfect in three things and then sometimes you can add a fourth yeah

1:00:38

concept of atomic habits right just some simple yeah simple things and sometimes

1:00:43

you can add a fourth for some kids and not others I have some kids on my team that discipline wise we have Tapped Out

1:00:52

and my discussion with their parents is my observation is that we’re tapped out

1:00:58

and they said yes okay so we’re going to work together to use motivation and and what not to to

1:01:06

improve the outcome for your your child right other kids okay I can add a fourth

1:01:12

I can add a fifth if they ever start lacking on the first two three first three nope we’re going

1:01:18

back to the basics like and so I I think as a as a company

1:01:23

you just gotta decide like who am I as a leader what can I really commit to doing

1:01:29

um there will come a time in your career when stuff that used to be awesome and doing

1:01:35

you just don’t want to do it yeah so just don’t don’t fight it there are certain I’ve been offered gigs and

1:01:40

whatnot it’s like yeah I’m really good at that turns out I just don’t want to do it anymore dang it that was when I was

1:01:46

gonna ask you to be the CEO of this girl but like but that that is where

1:01:53

like this alignment of like knowing yourself and again back to expectations

1:01:58

like that went wrong because honestly if I look back

1:02:04

I I I I I willfully ignored something

1:02:10

that I knew it was a pro that was a problem yeah but that paycheck was good yeah so do I regret it not really but do

1:02:17

I know that I should not have taken on that project yeah I know it I I know I

1:02:22

shouldn’t have um again this doesn’t create Perfection it gives you I always call it’s like the

1:02:28

Mark Smith theory of like most likely I can tell you things that if you do them

1:02:34

it is most likely you will be more productive less

1:02:39

stressed happier it’s not guaranteed I can tell you something it’s most likely

1:02:44

if you do this you will not go bankrupt you will not do this and this right

1:02:50

um and then I can give you the Frameworks where when it doesn’t go well you don’t

1:02:55

have to be like why is it no you go back to your framework

1:03:00

diagnose it and then okay Shane you’re still mad don’t use your framework today

1:03:07

go go do something take a break but like once you get your emotions out of your

1:03:14

head like then then go to your framework and you’ll probably send me a text and

1:03:19

say yeah I know exactly what I did wrong okay cool we all do it yeah so it takes

1:03:26

a day yeah yeah like like that’s the other thing too like I talk about a lot like don’t learn anything in the midst

1:03:32

of Crisis if you’re like in a complete freak out moment in your family and your life and your business just like

1:03:38

there’s nothing to learn at that moment just step away yeah just step away get your mind right then come back

1:03:45

and and assess things and see how you want to improve but like

1:03:51

we all think that we’re supposed to be these superheroes like I always tell young people like what should I expect

1:03:57

in my career okay there’s a million things I can tell you one of them is

1:04:02

you are gonna have this like Crisis where you get your first job working

1:04:08

with dudes in you know expensive suits who have like c-suite titles you’re

1:04:13

going to be meeting with them and you’re going to realize they’re not that smart

1:04:19

yeah you’re gonna be like oh my gosh I don’t I don’t understand like I’m in the room with the big the big dogs yeah

1:04:27

and they’re stupid yeah and they don’t pay attention to things and you’re like yeah

1:04:33

humanizes the world for you yes how it works yeah so nothing’s as linear and

1:04:38

perfect yeah you know just realize that we all have mistakes and sometimes we

1:04:44

like you know we work our way around that but it’s funny because I got my first big job

1:04:50

since I didn’t get a degree I got a job that paid me well and I thought oh my gosh I I robbed the bank I can’t believe

1:04:58

it I got this and I went in they they required me to wear a nice shirt tucked

1:05:03

in slacks everything every day yeah and even in my first interview he said we’re a tie for your next interview it shows

1:05:09

respect for the VP and I did yeah I showed up every day never met with a

1:05:15

customer face to face yeah sat in a cubicle in my best dress for some weird

1:05:21

reason yeah and then uh but I really kind of worshiped these guys until one day I sat down after I

1:05:28

got back from a trip where I used PTO I I sat down with uh the VP and he said

1:05:33

you know when I first started here I didn’t take a trip for three years because uh I was that dedicated to

1:05:40

Growing uh this business and I just immediately thought like you’re you’re

1:05:45

an idiot I don’t want to be like you I don’t want to be like you yeah yeah and I mean that I I hate to call him an idiot

1:05:53

because if he listens to this I apologize I actually like him and respect him as a person but

1:05:58

he had he took his own path but for me that made no sense and it showed no

1:06:04

respect for me right it just was completely disrespectful saying I don’t value your

1:06:09

time I don’t value your emotions so it was funny that I learned in that moment I don’t want to do that and that’s why

1:06:15

I’ve been so anti-dresscoed ever so pretty empty dress until you know we had

1:06:20

ourselves rep wearing a tie-dye pair of pajama shorts or something on a call and

1:06:25

I thought okay just you know luckily the shorts weren’t enough yeah dress a little bit better but so no but but but

1:06:32

yeah I mean everybody has their own yeah for sure yeah I mean no no I what I

1:06:41

would say is just nobody’s right or wrong but you got to decide what you want to do yeah if you’re early on in your career I think you did the right

1:06:47

thing which is like okay I’ll wear this I’ll wear a suit and tie and you did until it didn’t make sense to yeah I

1:06:55

mean Mark Cuban loves to say oh you know once I sold my company I never wore a suit again well it’s really impressive

1:07:00

that once you become a billionaire you didn’t wear a suit and by the way now you wear expensive

1:07:08

suits again every single time yeah he just refuses to wear a tie now okay good for you yeah but but no I I really think

1:07:16

young people I mean you know people always like you know work smarter not harder I’m like no no

1:07:22

this is your first job worked very hard and once you’ve proven yourself to

1:07:27

yourself that you can work hard well then start working smart you know if

1:07:33

there’s a proper dress code in your industry yeah wear it until you don’t need to

1:07:38

anymore my father if you saw him when he was we just crack up because at the end

1:07:44

of my Dad’s life like he legit wore like Walmart sweatpants and like a five dollar polo shirt and he had like 50 of

1:07:51

them and and then like even in his legal career if you went and visited him

1:07:57

he’s like walking his office and he’d be like sitting there with his shirt off like you know like doing legal research

1:08:03

and if a client came he’d throw on a suit right yeah for sure but um but he

1:08:09

he if you see him early in his career he was he was pimp like he looked good he

1:08:15

had fashion back to the night I was like hey what happened he’s like the second I had enough money

1:08:20

where I didn’t have to do it I started running this one yeah you didn’t have to

1:08:26

keep up appearances but when my clients showed up I put her in a nice suit you know and I did what I needed to do so there’s nothing wrong with with there’s

1:08:33

nothing wrong with that but when when you have every reason to believe that

1:08:40

you can do something different don’t be afraid to do it I’m not a hopes and dreams guy you’ll you never see me on

1:08:46

LinkedIn being like everyone should quit their jobs and be a solopreneur and all that stuff right but what I do say to

1:08:53

people is you probably do have other options and

1:08:59

um if you aren’t happy don’t overnight do anything silly but start thinking about what you would like

1:09:06

to do because what I will tell you is that it is is much more likely than

1:09:14

you think that if you wanted to change what you do you can do it and

1:09:20

um but just be deliberate about it don’t be

1:09:25

rational go quit your job don’t go listen to some guy on LinkedIn like quit your job the next day to be a life coach

1:09:31

but you know if you don’t want to wear a suit and tie but you want to make good money okay

1:09:37

work through some different options if you don’t want to live in the suburbs of the city anymore all right start

1:09:44

thinking about how you can make a change but understand that there’s some trade-offs to that you know if you like

1:09:50

there everything not everything not everyone can do everything like the whole like nothing’s

1:09:57

impossible that’s ridiculous there’s tons of impossible things and a lot of people have to know their limits or they’re going to ruin their lives but

1:10:03

there are things you can change to your life that are more accessible than you then you’re giving yourself credit for

1:10:10

and um I I do wish people would see that and

1:10:17

I wish I would have seen it much much earlier my father

1:10:22

um I think if he were alive right now in fact I know he would say

1:10:27

I wish I saw that I could have changed things 15 years

1:10:34

earlier like my parents had enough money to like for him to retire when he was in his mid to late 30s

1:10:41

it wasn’t in him to retire I think it ended up killing him but could he have changed the type of work could he have

1:10:48

picked up some different Hobbies like I think he realized too late that he really was

1:10:56

in control of doing things and you see that sometimes where someone goes

1:11:02

you know what I wish I would have done it sooner and here’s the proof that I could have like

1:11:08

some of us wish we could I done something sooner but we actually couldn’t right like me being in the NFL

1:11:14

like yeah yes yes but like you know like okay with me with my son like

1:11:20

I look at my son like I wish I had him 10 years earlier well we we dealt with

1:11:25

infertility and he came exactly when he should have come yeah so um do I wish it yeah I mean in theory

1:11:31

but it’s like I’d spend more time with him but like no like everything happened for a reason do I wish that uh my wife

1:11:39

and I would have structured Our Lives to be more carefree and less reliant on

1:11:48

money earlier yeah for sure and I looked back and I could have and that’s like oh dang it I wish it

1:11:55

would have done it yeah but I don’t know

1:12:00

what do I know yeah we we seriously appreciated the

1:12:06

conversation where it’s been I think Shane and I have learned a ton today for

1:12:11

sure I I want I have one question for you yeah what what is uh what is the one

1:12:17

mistake that you’ve learned the most from I guess and all of your experience

1:12:23

and all of what we’ve talked about today but what is one mistake that you feel like you’ve learned the most from

1:12:29

foreign [Music]

1:12:37

so I don’t have a I don’t have a big defining moment mistake in my life thank

1:12:42

goodness um but if I could go back

1:12:49

and again it’s a it’s something that I really could have done differently yeah

1:12:55

um I would have realized sooner

1:13:01

that that appearing busy has no value in being productive was

1:13:06

just a lot better but the one that really if there’s anything that I ever regret

1:13:12

it is I have made a lot of money for some people that I don’t respect

1:13:19

and I wish I could go back and not have done that I

1:13:24

Justified that because I was put in charge of 95 percent of their people and

1:13:30

I was able to make their lives a lot better yeah but I look back at a few companies I worked at

1:13:35

a few of the founders and I golly I wish that I didn’t yeah I wish I didn’t bring

1:13:40

my skills to their town you know yeah for sure on the other hand man when you when you pick the right person

1:13:47

like there’s some there are some people I could you know I could name like whether it’s Chris Villar and Aaron

1:13:52

Shoemaker and John hanula and Jared chapel and Steve zollman like uh every

1:13:58

dollar I’ve ever made those guys has made me happy I want to make them yeah I freaking love these guys right and

1:14:04

there’s just a few others that I won’t name that I regret that I ever made them a penny yeah but

1:14:09

still it happened I got to be a good leader for other people and I think I don’t regret the experience but yeah um

1:14:16

I looking back I knew that they weren’t good dudes yeah

1:14:23

and I still ignored it and I wish I wouldn’t have yeah but I get that no I

1:14:28

think that that is an important thing to pay attention to um it’s the same with clients yeah right

1:14:36

we deal with that in our space where I have a lot of people that we’ve worked

1:14:42

for where I’ve thought that I wish we didn’t do that yeah I wish we didn’t do that and you learn from it and you make

1:14:48

your business better and you make yourself better through it I think uh yeah over time your business will

1:14:55

improve and you’ll improve as a person through doing that but at the very least we all have I mean we all have a price

1:15:02

at least the very least at least charge them a lot no seriously like like one

1:15:09

last really brief like Mark Singer story my dad has this there was this big Law Firm that was working for one of these

1:15:16

uh Saudi princes and they they they were struggling they came to my dad because my dad was like the LA he’s the guy you

1:15:23

go to when you you’re with the fixer he’s like burn everything to the ground kind of yeah right and he’s like yeah I’m not working for those guys and

1:15:29

they’re like no no he goes okay tell you what they have to pay me this ungodly amount and they have to pay it up front

1:15:34

and uh otherwise and I have to take the lead otherwise I’m not doing it and they’re like no you can’t do that these

1:15:40

you will offend The Prince and he’s like yeah I don’t trust those guys

1:15:45

um I will get the job done but they’re going to pay me an insane amount of money and it’s all up front and you guys

1:15:50

don’t have to get your money up front I don’t really care yeah so he does the job and and then he gets them the other

1:15:57

firm didn’t get paid a dime and he’s not like listen like I didn’t do anything like you know it was a civil procedure

1:16:05

but like no I had a price the price were working that for that dude was like five times my rate and it was in my bank

1:16:11

account before I started and no I don’t feel bad about it right yeah so like you I mean you’re a business owner you have

1:16:17

bills to pay you might have a jerk client just give them the jerk rate yeah and tell your tell your people hey

1:16:23

you’re all getting Chris’s bonuses because that guy got charged the jerk rate and then when we can fire him we’re

1:16:30

gonna fire him yeah like you know I don’t think you have to be like angels all the time but like get paid for

1:16:35

working with jerks yeah sure yeah no I think that’s a good thing I like that and people uh they all wonder why why is

1:16:42

why do I pay so much or why is it so much harder to get a hold of you and why

1:16:48

do I have to work with your team and not you directly you know just the worst but I think uh there’s a lot to learn from

1:16:55

uh what we talked about today and really I think leadership management

1:17:01

understanding expectations within yourself yeah I think setting

1:17:07

expectations with your team yourself um agreements prevent disagreements making sure that we we do all that not

1:17:13

only in business but in our personal lives oh yeah and especially with our people that we love and I think uh

1:17:19

understanding your path you know I I like the phrase most likely because the

1:17:25

e-myth is a book that changed my life back when I read it in school it kind of what got me to drop out uh but it talks

1:17:33

a lot about there’s this myth of Entrepreneurship and it’s the myth that everyone just Dives in and they are

1:17:41

wildly successful at this crazy idea but really uh entrepreneurship or business or career or anything is strategic it

1:17:48

takes time it takes a lot of agreements discipline no matter what you do and they’re still at the end of the day and

1:17:54

most likely yeah sign at the end that says this will most likely work so yes I

1:17:59

think let’s link everything that you have um because I know you have a lot of

1:18:05

graphs and written out things that could really help uh dissect what he talks about I think I need your help with it

1:18:10

too because I’m like dude I’m like I’m old

1:18:16

if anyone’s listening I have lung disease I’m not 87 years old and my son had his first home run last

1:18:23

night so my I’m a little horse but I love that but I’m like a technological dinosaur so like I I have a lot of stuff

1:18:30

I need to get in better so I’m like I need to go Shane because I’m

1:18:35

embarrassing myself here and I really have a lot to offer but if I can’t I’m like taking like Snippets and that’s

1:18:42

like the content I’m providing like your notes gotta be a better way you know I like it but we’ll link everything that

1:18:48

you do have cool um maybe we’ll work on some more stuff and then uh we’ll also link your LinkedIn cool uh because I

1:18:55

think that there’s a ton of value that comes from that a hundred percent and I love the pressure that you apply to a

1:19:01

lot of people’s posts as well you you can find Mark not only in the post but in the comment section uh and I think

1:19:07

that that provides a ton of value when most people on LinkedIn are just sitting there trying to agree yeah guys if I

1:19:14

have one piece of advice on LinkedIn it is when you comment ask questions give

1:19:22

well thought out questions and thoughts yeah because it will start a conversation where you can learn so much

1:19:28

and people will see this guy that had a conversation on LinkedIn with Mark Smith

1:19:34

had really good points and then out of nowhere recruiters are calling you like

1:19:40

don’t just say love it bud just like dig in and really ask those questions press

1:19:46

me if I’m wrong I’m wrong I’d love to learn you know show me new things that you do I mean it is meant to be a place

1:19:54

of networking and learning not just Fanboy stuff like yeah it’s not Instagram yeah no no it’s nothing

1:20:01

well Mark thank you again for the time guys that was fun

1:20:07

oh

English (auto-generated)