Insights from Jay Davis on Viral Marketing, Agency Growth, and the Birth of Pillow Cube


In the latest episode of Scroll Sessions, hosts Dan Page and Shane Hickenlooper dive into a conversation with Jay Davis, an influential figure in viral marketing and entrepreneurship. Davis, known for his pivotal role in The Color Run and the creation of the innovative Pillow Cube, shares his journey and offers valuable lessons for aspiring entrepreneurs and marketing professionals.

Starting with Vivint and Moving to Viral Marketing:

Jay Davis began his career at Vivint, where he was part of the product team. He later transitioned to The Color Run, an experience that introduced him to the world of viral marketing. This was a turning point, leading him to explore various viral projects and eventually start his own agency, Creatively.

Creatably: Focusing on Hyper-Growth for Startups:

Creatably was formed with the aim to aid startups in achieving rapid growth. The agency not only provided marketing services but also ventured into investing in companies. This dual approach allowed Davis and his team to participate in the growth they were fostering, exemplified by their investment in the in-caller company.

The Inception of Pillow Cube:

An intriguing part of the conversation was the birth of Pillow Cube. Davis shares how his personal need for a better sleeping experience, combined with his observation of diverse pillow designs worldwide, led to the creation of this unique product. The idea, initially met with skepticism, gained traction through its practicality and comfort, ultimately becoming a successful venture.

Principles of Viral Marketing:

Davis discusses the core principles that drive viral content and marketing campaigns. He emphasizes the importance of humor, unexpectedness, and addressing viewer needs. These elements, combined with a deep understanding of platform-specific strategies, form the crux of effective viral marketing.

Advice for Entrepreneurs and Agency Owners:

For budding entrepreneurs and agency owners, Davis stresses the importance of pursuing passions and interests. He advises starting with simple ideas and quickly testing them in the market. The key is to see if people are willing to pay for your product or service, and then iterate based on feedback.


Jay Davis’s journey is a testament to the power of innovative thinking and adaptability in the ever-evolving world of marketing. His experiences, from the early days at Vivint to the successful launch of Pillow Cube, offer a roadmap for those looking to make their mark in the entrepreneurial world.

About Jay Davis:

To learn more about Jay Davis and his ventures, you can follow him on LinkedIn and explore his brands, including the exciting new venture, Cold Case Cream, a unique ice cream brand delivering unconventional flavors nationwide.

[Music] there’s a fair


welcome to scroll sessions we’re with Jay Davis today I’m Shane Hickenlooper with my co-host I’m Dan Page and thanks


for being here Jay yeah we’re super excited to have you I think let’s live you let’s let you give an intro of


yourself because you’ve got an awesome background and what you’re currently doing is really cool so uh so I started


my career at Vivint way back in the day when it was Apex alarm yeah oh my gosh


that’s a throwback name and did product Dev there and got to be on the product


team back when I was the only person on the product team wow uh so for a minute


there it was just me and then my boss uh and then


um after that I helped start a company called The Color Run uh it was one of the initial employees


there uh and it kind of got that just got me into this like World of viral


marketing and kind of fell in love with doing things that just went crazy and


and blew up um and then did more viral videos viral projects uh and then in


2016 2017 I started thinking about kind of what I wanted to do next uh and


decided to start an agency called creatively we focus on hyper growth for


startups um and as we we did that and worked with a lot of great clients uh both here in


Utah and outside of Utah um eventually we kind of decided to do two things one was start investing in


companies so that we could take part in that growth um and invested our first investment


here in Utah was a company called the in-caller uh which was super fun they’ve seen amazing growth and then we also


decided uh I was like I want to start our own Brands and so we launched


pillowcube in-house um and pillowcube is ground like crazy and taken off and is now the second most


searched pillow on the internet so wow yeah that’s awesome it’s behind the world uh my pillow oh really my pillow


isn’t still number one so that’s funny because it’s going down don’t even know what my pillow is yeah it’s that guy


Mike Lindelof I think is his name Linda Lord yeah he’s in like all he’s like Walmart and yeah like he’s like in all


the major big retailers and he’s a big uh it’s a big conspiracy now yeah yeah


we get a lot of people who are like yeah the real question is what does Jay think about you know overthrowing the US


government I’m like sure I don’t want to that’s my that’s my position so


so yeah so we launched pillow Cube pillowcube’s grown like crazy and uh


then since then we invested in some other companies we ended up buying one of those companies called stair slide oh


such a cool company and then we bought another toy company and we’re adding that into the stair slide portfolio


um and we’ve kind of created an incubator where we just start and grow stuff and buy stuff that’s so awesome


it’s cool to get to that point where you can like I guess basically take your


marketing and then make it work for you instead of for other people yeah yeah and I think that was something that like


always appealed to me was hey if we’re really this as good as we say we are with marketing why don’t we at some


point do it for ourselves and so that was something that just naturally and I just I’m more of an entrepreneur I’m not


necessarily like an agency guy I was never like never worked at a big agency yeah


you get like a big Ad Agency and so I just never I don’t know it was never something that was like I want to be an


agency uh owner for the next 50 years as like my primary thing I think I get too


bored yeah I like doing stuff for like four or five years and then I’m like okay what’s next yeah and so totally


I’ve been doing this for four years and I’m already like we gotta do more you were you were that way like two


years ago yeah that’s fine yeah two years in I was that way so I I find that


really interesting because this is a concept that we’ve played a lot with of if we’re really as good at marketing as


we say we are not only are we gonna do it for ourselves but we’re gonna go and approach Brands and say hey we want


equity in your company yeah and we’re gonna prove our worth by scaling it


um or maybe taking the reverse approach of scaling the company and then bringing


it up to them and saying hey yeah we’d like to talk Equity so how does that conversation start for agency owners


like us where we’ve had that same idea of how do we approach companies that we are really killing it for or that we’d


want to kill it for and talk about partnering yeah so kind of our approach and I think it’s worked really well


I think where it always gets hard to do services for Equity is when you over


inflate the value of the services and so there’s there’s some groups out there


incubators accelerators who essentially are like hey we can


we can give you these services but we’re charging you like 10 times what we normally charge and that always seems to


break down like it always seems to get to a point when you can’t quantify like okay here’s the value of what we’re


giving you and so the nice thing for creatively has always been that we’re like hey this is what we are charging today like


we have three other people coming in this month and they’re paying us 350


000 for this package and so if we’re going to give you that same package for free or for half off it has a real value


it’s not just us like making up a value it’s here’s the exact package we gave


someone else and then here’s the price you’re paying and the difference is real value like we could say no to you bring


on an extra client this month and make 200 yep thousand dollars so


it’s really a very like real value and I think that’s the biggest thing that I


would say so if you do want to do that is like here’s our package here’s what we normally charge here’s what we’re going to do it for and then do that up


front and and just because I think it gets a lot harder once you do


blow someone up it all of a sudden changes they’re like the whole day now yeah for sure so that’s what I would say


if you want to do stuff for Equity as an agency owner which I think is amazing like I think it’s awesome we have a lot


of clients and potential clients who really get excited by that because they’re like even if I don’t end up


doing it with you the fact that you’re willing to do it shows you that shows them that we’re super confident in what


we do and you’re super confident in their product or service right yeah you’re like we believe this could really


work out and that’s why we want to potentially be a part of it yeah yeah that’s really cool and that also gives


uh for the agency owner it makes it so that it’s not like this


um unlimited bucket that they’re just pulling from forever I think that’s what’s hard and where it’s different


than like Sweat Equity in some ways but in many ways it’s very similar like if you went to a startup today


uh it was like brand new but they were gonna pay you they’re gonna pay you something but they’re probably underpaying you and then you’re getting


the rest in equity and our approach is like why why can’t we do that exact same thing with an agency like we’ll give you


all this work and you know on the first one you’re going to pay us Less on the second one


you’re going to pay us a little more uh and that’s just going to allow us to give you more value and and you can


serve some cash and then it also aligns incentives like as an agency we’re really excited to see this grow and


scale so incentivized to do so and that’s like absolutely key especially in


the agency World especially when you’re dealing with I think I I guess viral


marketing uh where you’ve got paid in organic working towards you and you’ve


got to have both very much style then to get the results that you need yeah yeah so on that note


um going back to where viral marketing first started to be a part of your vision and what you


were doing because getting to the point where you can say hey we’ll charge you 350 000 for all this creative work takes


a lot of confidence and skill set yeah so getting to that point was your first experience with video at Color Run yeah


so I when I was at vivin I uh didn’t work on the video team or but I worked


kind of around them and so I got to kind of see some of the stuff that they were doing and I really liked it


um when we when the whole Vivint Rebrand happened I gotta help with things from


the product side and so it was just really fun to kind of see that process uh so then when I was at Color Run that


was the first time like uh I originally came in to help more with like product development and like


managing races and building out the strategy but then uh the owner was just


like hey who wants to help with marketing and no one really volunteered and I was super interested so I was like hey I’ll hire a bunch of videographers


and I’ll kind of manage that creative side um and so hired just some amazing


cinematographers and I still work with a lot of them uh and it was really fun just to like hey let’s just create


something that shows off what this is I was at a very different time in in kind


of social media I mean we launched in December of 2011. I still remember the


campaigns yeah I still remember like the visual campaigns that I saw even that


was that was like end of my high school years yes I remember the visuals of what


they just created they stand out I mean that was what was so interesting about Color Run was it was like super new


super new very visual people here in Utah because of the Holly Festival down


in Spanish Fork or Springville um we’re more aware of it but when you show that to people like outside of Utah


they’re like what in the world yeah this is really crazy and cool yeah at the same time and at the time Facebook was


used different now we just use it to fight about politics but that’s LinkedIn too yeah yeah


uh but back then it was much more a thing for social currency it was like hey what are you doing this week and


that’s cool what is something you’re doing that’s different than everyone else and so people wanted to show off like look what I did this weekend yeah


and so we really leveraged that to be able to get as much virality as possible out of it


um also at that time every post was seen by every single one of your friends yeah which is just a different different the


algorithm didn’t exist I mean there was no algorithm so it was just get a bunch of friends followers so that you could


share with them so if you posted every single person that was your friend on


Facebook saw your post wow uh and so what things could just spread yeah yeah like crazy yeah like that works huh yeah


seriously don’t do that anymore yeah Facebook was like yeah we can make a lot more money if we limited this so that’s


one of the things that shifted like for businesses the idea of going viral is is


very different I think there’s still those opportunities but in many ways Facebook made it less


uh they made it harder to like have explosive viral growth but they made it much easier and more predictable to have


sustained growth so yeah that’s really interesting and I guess how how do you feel like the platforms now have kind of


I would say maybe kind of democratized virality at least a little bit with like


Tick Tock and reels it almost feels like anyone can go viral now without having


any paid marketing behind it but yeah yeah I think that that’s very true and it’s it’s always fun seeing what just


goes viral I mean that’s just like a whole yeah it’s a whole other volume a whole nother thing uh but but totally


like it’s amazing now how quickly things can spread like you can see something go through Tick Tock in just like a week


yep where it’s like all of a sudden everyone’s doing something you’re like where did this come from yeah I did that


this past week with the cheese pickle thing that went off you cook cheese you put garlic salt on


it and then you wrap a pickle into it and everyone tried it and said oh it’s amazing so I tried it and I made a tick


tock about it one of my best performing tick tocks yeah it’s crazy it was amazing yeah really but I love pickles


Jesse my wife and I tried the whole uh Fruit Roll-Up and ice cream because


fruit roll up as soon as it freezes it immediately hardens so it cracks yeah so


like within seconds so we like literally put ice cream another fruit roll up rolled it up and then you you literally


crunch it and I mean you bite it and it’s crunchy within seconds that is kind of crazy so the crazy thing is this is a


week right yeah it’s like go on for seven eight days and then it’ll disappear kind of like the ice bucket


challenge that happened forever ago stuff like that yeah yeah it’s wild seeing kind of those and what’s so


interesting about virality just is like a broader like not even using it for


business but it’s just such an interesting like process it’s it’s wild that it even


happens uh but but seeing that stuff like uh I remember seeing like pretty


recently costume mayor those two dancing like the two the husband husband and


wife they’re uh choreographers right yeah yeah yeah so they did like this dance to an AJR song and it immediately


like went crazy everyone was copying it and trying to recreate the dance and


then it made that song like the top song for AJR like overnight like yeah it


became like just huge and so it’s just interesting seeing those ripples that that you can have someone who’s like hey


I have this idea uh and that’s like I think kind of been what’s been fascinating to me


kind of from the beginning is like this is just really interesting yeah and like


can you create that and it’s really hard it’s hard to create it again and again


um because it’s kind of lightning in a bottle but so where does the confidence come from in that thing because you know there were all these creative agencies


that popped up over Utah with hero videos back in the day Dollar Shave Club was the first one I ever remembered they


came out with this hero video it blew up they made millions of dollars it was his last pennies right that he used to do it


and then uh a few creative agencies that did really good hero videos popped up


but where does the confidence come from that you can make something go viral and


I guess with color run right you started making videos that started to go viral according to the algorithm at the time


yeah and then adapting that so yeah I guess two questions really is one is


where does the confidence come from that you know you can create success with video


um and then the other is like how did you gain that confidence yeah so I think that kind of uh


kind of how I got there was I was doing after Color Run uh I was doing YouTube videos with a


friend and we were doing stuff um and just kind of seeing like what worked and like a lot of times we were


just doing stuff like hey there’s no reason to do this we’re just trying to see if this will go crazy kind of like


the what’s inside guy right like early on he’s like I’m gonna cut stuff open and yeah yeah and just see what it takes


and see if that works and I think that’s what’s interesting is like for me I was


always more fascinated by like how do you get things to go viral and how can you leverage that


um what’s interesting now and where we’ve really shifted to is uh when I


after I started creatively I was I was working on campaigns for people and then I met uh this guy named Damien Dayton


and he’s now one of the partners at creatively um but Damien and I kind of started


talking about like hey what what what’s like this whole process like how do you make something go viral uh should we


even focus on virality and what we kind of landed on was we


started to instead look at what kind of companies have explosive growth so even


like more than virality like what companies what are the what is like the


framework or um methodology or or model you could say


that that explosive growth companies follow and so Damien had a bunch of


ideas around what that looked like and we kind of fleshed that out and I added stuff to it and Damien kept adding stuff


to it and so that’s where we kind of went was what are the companies that we know fit the model of companies that can


explode and then let’s provide them the storytelling and creative that will give them that and what’s interesting now is


like it’s so much less reliant on virality now like you’re really not trying to create virality that’s really


not what we do as much as we’re trying to create a campaign that gives them explosive growth and so usually that has


to fit like one of those pieces of the model is you need things that are pretty democratic


um you usually need stuff that like fits a really broad part of the market that everybody can respond to whether it


be grandmas versus yep teenagers yeah so then when you do your marketing on social or other places the likelihood of


hitting a potential customer is really high and so we just started to notice like okay that’s like one aspect of it


like even as I look at companies who like pillow cubes had amazing growth but like


I talked to a guy the other day it’s like five times more Revenue than us and it’s like well because you just have


like the broadest product ever yeah uh like you have a product that every


single guy in America can use it’s a t-shirt company yeah uh true classic


have you guys ever yeah so yeah they’re like a kind of like a built competitor yeah yeah so and that plain T-shirt fits


good yeah yeah for better guys and that’s amazing yeah like that’s what’s great is like as you start to get I feel


like as you get deeper into entrepreneurship you like start to think more about that kind of stuff it’s like hey it’s not as much like I figured out


how to build something people want now like how can I build something that like is maybe broader or not as broad like


you kind of start to engineer the kind of company you want to have the kind of industry you want to be in


um and a lot of times that’s interesting because like I don’t think about that stuff yeah I I didn’t get into pillows


because I wanted to get in pillows it was like the last industry I wanted to go into see I’m obsessed with my pillows no and I love pillows but more from like


uh like man there were just so many companies going into it it was like so competitive yeah and it was like


everyone was seeing it as this gold rush and I was like I really don’t want to be in the betting space but I have this


idea and it seems to work yeah um so anyways but yeah like that’s what’s really interesting now today


about it um and so to probably better answer your question like I think a lot of that


confidence came as we realized like okay we know we can blow up this type of


company and then our approach was always like let’s take all of the budget and


just make as good of stuff as possible um and I think that’s where it’s like


such a simple lesson for entrepreneurship but it’s like that delayed gratification like I was always


paying myself like very little uh as little as I possibly could so that


most of the budget could go towards making stuff that would get us to that next level yeah and then there were also


times like there were certain campaigns where we were just very aggressive and like hey this is one that’s like we just


feel like he’s gonna kill it and it’s gonna be kind of that like piece for us that everyone sees and is gonna know


um and so we’ve had some of those where you’re like hey we really gotta invest in this and so I think like hopefully


that answers that question of like how do you go and have that confidence it’s like do great work and like spend as much as


you possibly can on doing that great work and then it will build from there so like in the beginning it was like hey


do you have 30 grand for a video okay great we’ll do that we’ll do it and we’ll like do pull every favor in the


book and uh you know try and make the absolute best thing we can


and so I think that like doing that compared to I’ve seen people who will


take that same budget and we’ll spend half of it on just paying Executives


uh like now with our bigger budgets that we see like some of our competitor


agencies just spend way too much paying the top people and so they just don’t have the money to


do great work so well and I guess the creative work is done by the talent at the company right yeah like yeah yeah a


lot of that I I guess you could say in your space it’s similar to architecture where somebody hires an architect and


then you’ve got to go get the best people to help you build this infrastructure yeah or else they’re


gonna walk into their house or their office building when it’s done and realize hey this Outlet doesn’t work and


yeah this wall is uneven yeah the scaffold is not yep so great and a beautiful building is a great example of


a good architect right so it’s very similar with creative so and I think that’s always what great creative work


kind of requires is you got to have that delayed gratification of like


I’m every great architect every great musician was doing great work at a time


where it was really hard um You Gotta Have bounce bounce to creativity actually I think make you


more creative oh 100 for the most part like it’s amazing I think that’s something that right now we’ve kind of


gotten in this like porn hustle like hustle porn kind of stuff where it’s like ah you grind and


everyone asks all these questions like what what should I buy like what mic do I need what this do I need what camera


do I need I’m like bro none of that matters like I always meet camera cinematographer people who are like


do you not own your own like red I’m like dude we could shoot a huge video on like any camera it doesn’t have to be


like on an uh like we do yeah but like that’s not


what’s important it’s like telling the right story and doing the marketing in the right way and so I think we’ve gone


too far in our culture of like thinking that the tools and then you’ll meet people who will make like a crazy


album like Billy eilish her first album was made in her bedroom yeah her and her


brother were like making it in like this tiny little house and I think he still produces herself yeah yeah and so I


think that’s that’s always what I try and encourage people is like don’t get so worried about like once I deal once


circumstances are perfect and ideal then I’ll be able to do great work it’s like great work is always done


uh in difficult circumstances well and then you look at today and you look at


like viral videos today and it’s iPhone you know yeah it’s just it’s it’s very


rarely stuff that’s been over produced for the most part you know it’s it’s


stuff that is very uh consumable to people I think for the most part at


least the platforms that they’re on I I’m curious too like obviously with your experience and everything that you’ve


done the last you know 10 years or so there there’s a framework to going viral


for the most part obviously it changes but like break that down I guess of what what you feel are some of the pieces


other than maybe the foundation at the company level but when it comes to the actual creative what are some


foundational pieces that make a good video viral yeah so I think the things that really help something uh even if


you want to go like I agree with the virality but even if you want to be more more inclusive of like what makes good


content but something that has kind of that explosive potential I love the way


you framed that outside of morality to where you’re like that’s not necessarily the goal right well and I sometimes I


just think virality is hard because it’s like it’s like can you catch lightning in a bottle it’s really hard and so but


there are certain principles so I’ll give some like good creative yeah but like one of them is is understanding


especially when you’re thinking of an ad we always think about we’re interrupting this person’s day and so we have to


entertain them um I think that’s one of the biggest things companies struggle with is companies want to be cool often for sure


uh the founders are like I wanna I wanna be seen as cool by my friends and so


they’re nervous to make stuff that likes is silly or funny or makes


it seem like comedic but when you’re interrupting that person like that’s the best thing I’ve ever found that’s why we


use comedy all the time that’s why so many people use comedy and ads it’s so much harder to make an ad that like


pulls at the heartstrings that sells a product uh than it is to just make someone laugh


yeah so because it’s Universal it’s it’s one it’s a very Universal for the most


part obviously everybody has a little bit of a different sense of humor but yeah humor in general I think is


universal across any demographic yeah so humor is a big piece of that disruption


yep so we’re always like we don’t always have to but like humor just they’ve been


done tons of studies that that you will get someone to cry faster if you first get them to laugh then if you just try


and get them to cry or to feel sad or or kind of like more that


I think it puts you in that emotional heads I mean there’s so much psychology that goes into this but puts you in that


emotional space you’re already like most people you’re laughing you’re already vulnerable yep and you’re receptive to


the change but if you try and get someone to like feel emotional you feel manipulated quickly and so exactly that


like you get people laugh and then get them to feel like an emotional pull uh they don’t feel manipulated they feel


more open to it so I think that’s like a big one is like what are you offering the viewer


um for doing this I think one of the biggest things I’ve learned in doing viral things is unexpectedness I think


that’s like the core thing which is always across the board which is really hard to create unexpectedness yeah


um but like we have something like one of the things I think really helps and I saw an interview recently with the


founder of liquid death where he was talking about the same thing and we do this in our creatively Retreats with


clients like kind of the first Retreat we do um we don’t ever pitch people creative we don’t like


yeah interesting uh we instead sit down and say we have this Retreat process


where we sit down with them and learn about them and gather data and ask them questions and then one of the things


that we do in that first Retreat is we we play some games around bad ideas like


what’s the worst idea uh and you get some really interesting stuff you get it


like breaks the ice and gets people to start saying hey what’s the worst idea you’ve ever had for marketing your


company uh and that really opens things up like the CEO will throw out a horrible idea yeah and everyone’s kind


of like oh okay like that’s super inappropriate or like that it’s always inappropriate yeah it’s inappropriate or


it’s even more just like that’s not Kosher like no no one would


be okay with that it’s not um something like that’s not how we would talk to customers or we would


never be that honest but like even right now it’s amazing how that’s working like this whole uninfluencer movement I don’t


know if you’ve seen uninfluencing it’s like this new movement with influencers where you where they talk about products


they hate rather than products they like okay uh and so it’s creating this kind of like shift back to


um old days like yeah like what if what if you’re having people not talk about how amazing it is but like even with uh


with marketing and starting to be like how can we be more honest uh how can we


be more transparent what can we like kind of admit uh so that always opens up


some really fun conversations yeah and I think that’s where that’s what the liquid death founder was saying is like


they’re always trying to think of things that are like what’s a bad idea and then they go with all and then they do ideas


yeah they’re like let’s have people drink the most expect expensive drinks on the planet yep uh they’re like I


don’t know if you’ve seen that video from liquid death but they were like we’re gonna have people drink the most expensive drinks on the planet and it


was like caviar water yeah the most expensive caviar on the planet


yeah he’s like so the water’s worth like a thousand dollars yeah and they’re like hey you’re gonna drink the most


expensive drink and people are blindfolded and then they drink it and they’re like throwing up yeah and


they’re like now drinks with death and tell us which one you like more and it’s like yeah I like the liquid death more


than yeah then squid ink yeah and like they just had him and it’s like that’s a


really bad idea but it’s a really funny idea and then they turned it into a great idea and it’s also brand placement


they’ve done some other really fun stuff with like they’ve also had like kids drink liquid death and it kind of looks


like they’re drinking beer they’ve done like I mean they have just for sure Factor yeah they have like uh I Think


Like a Porn Star be there like spokes woman for a couple ads they’ve had like


all this crazy stuff in their merch is insane yeah like all everything about


that brand is about extreme and wild and yeah it’s because Dasani isn’t that way


it’s because you know who coax products in the water space aren’t that way and


so they’re like we need to massive brand play you know massive brand player and I think that’s in a really important


lesson for entrepreneurs which is like as an entrepreneur you have to like zag


as everyone else there’s like that book that talks about this and that’s kind of the whole principle is like is everyone


else is zigging you need to be zagging and I mean that’s liquid death right there it’s like everyone would have been


terrified like Dasani no one at Coca-Cola would have ever approved those no’s


[Music] um those campaigns there’s another one where they got like people who hate who


like were always trolling their comment section and they paid them a thousand dollars to let them shock them with a


taser yeah they’ve had some crazy because they were like they what they did is they had them come in and try


seven different Waters and they’re like if you can pick which one is liquid death because you say it our water sucks


so bad you can you can tell the difference yeah if you don’t get it we’re gonna shop it’s funny and if you


get it we’ll give you a thousand dollars yeah and they both got trapped well I know like it’s just awesome Snowbird did


a campaign oh yeah that was their negative reviews but it was a really good negative review you know too much


powder one star and yeah those are the ideas that you bring up to CEOs where


where I guess the CEOs bring up to you right they would say oh a bad marketing campaign would be to showcase our worst


reviews yeah but then they flip that into good that’s what you’re saying yep yeah and so it just starts one of the ones that


was always fun to us was like we were working with owlette early on and Khaled


at the time was just marketing is like motherhood is the most beautiful gift


which is like so like emotional everything was pretty and everything we called it the glerg it was just like


um women and and as we talked to women they’re like I hate that marketing like I hate that stuff that like tries to


Pander to me and is patronizing and so we started doing we like got the CEO


throughout the idea of like what if kids are kind of the worst it’s like they kind of are the worst they’re kind of


horrible little human beings at times they’re also great that’s very true but they’re also horrible as we did this whole campaign and video about how the


kid was uh was like the the mean nurse the monster in a scary movie


um like what if what if that was the kid not some monsters like what if the kid is


the monster he’s the villain um and that just like opened up a world and we were able to like talk about a


lot of fun ideas and um we did a campaign with homie about kind of comparing haunted houses like uh


no one wants to buy a haunted house but what if someone did want to buy a haunted house what would that be like uh


and what if they were more scared of the process of buying houses than the haunted house and so we just like played


with that idea of like oh that’s not usually something people would do to sell houses


um but I think that that’s where all good creative ideas come from is like there’s kind of like that phrase like a


bad idea looks like a good idea or a bad idea looks like a bad idea a good idea looks like a good idea but a great idea


looks like a bad idea um and so how do you get people to kind of come up with that and pull up that out of them yeah


and it’s really interesting one thing that I’ve thought about because scroll has never offered creative as part of


our process and I think a lot of that comes out of fear and lack of confidence because I’ve wondered how do you price


creativity because you’re not just saying hey it’s gonna cost x amount for


this video there’s also so much thought process psychology search strategy


research so much stuff how do you build that into a pricing model that just seems so complex to me


it’s honestly I wish we were like amazing at it’s hard it’s hard because I


think that’s one of the things that we haven’t traditionally done great at is explaining like hey that’s really what


you’re paying for um because they think I’m just getting a high production video shot on a red


right yes yeah but yeah it’s like hundreds of hours of research like the like I would say probably I don’t know


you can correct me if I’m wrong like 75 of like the total man hours are pre-video research yeah yeah it’s all


the it’s not and it’s all like the IP around like how do we edit I mean there’s just so many things we’ve


learned of like how do you edit how do you do captions how do you do hooks how do you want the


pacing to be how do you want the flow to be how do you grab someone’s attention in the first five seconds that’s


different if you’re using YouTube versus Facebook versus Instagram versus Tick Tock and so there’s just a lot of stuff


and I think that’s something like I would say my general principle is


work with people who understand that they’re paying for your expertise like there’s a story about Pablo Picasso you


may have heard it before where this lady saw him in I think he was in Italy I don’t know somewhere in Europe


and she saw it was like Hey can you draw me a picture and he was like sure and he like drew a picture picture in two


minutes and she was like oh that’s amazing like that’s so great how much and he was like sixty thousand dollars


and she’s like but it only took you two minutes and he was like no but it took me 50 years to learn how to do it in two


minutes and that’s what you’re paying for um and I think that that’s like


so my general principle is try to avoid working with people


who don’t want to pay for that expertise yeah who want to say like hey you know


what’s the time uh there’s a great video on YouTube which kind of goes over this with logos


think so it’s either one of the chalkboard yes and he’s got a beanie Christo’s the master with uh


pricing creative work yeah he’s like pioneered the like the proper way to do


it he’s amazing yeah but he talks about a lot of those principles like so if I can do it fast but you still love it you


want to pay me less yeah that doesn’t I wouldn’t you want to pay me more because I’m fast and it’s like oh that’s a good


point yeah I think I have seen that video is awesome so so I think that’s a lot of it and a lot of that comes to


like creating processes that are repeatable um so that people it’s like hey we’re not we’re not charging you for our time


we’re charging you for our our process and our intellectual property like how we do this is really what we’re charging


for yeah okay I think that that’s a very good way to go about it and something


that I’ve learned with scroll uh I mean we’re only four years into this still


young and figuring it out but um learning to say no to certain


customers has been yeah it’s been really valuable rewarding yeah and helping us uh move forward with clients that are


aligned with us so and we’re sure you do a lot of that yeah we’re to a place now where we can do that like you’re saying


like at the beginning you’re taking the 30 000 drops right it’s like hey we just need to like we need to do this we’re


gonna do it in the most creative way possible I think there’s a time and place for both yeah there’s a time and


place for we need the revenue in order to survive and then there’s then there Comes A Time of we know our lane and


we’re sticking to it yeah and this is how we deliver so I guess how was it


just be um how did you make that jump I guess if that makes sense no yeah so I


think right before it was kind of probably like a couple months before I I started creatively I went and had lunch


with um Jason Bangerter who started strzok and I was kind of asking him questions


and that was kind of one of his key points was like look you need to kind of split your clients into two buckets in


the early days one is like they’re paying the bills and the other is like they’re building our portfolio


and you’re just going to have those two types of clients early on and you need to just Embrace that like yeah if you


try and do like award-winning work for every single client you’re just not


gonna make it it’s just not gonna be possible so you need to kind of make those choices and again you’re not doing


bad work for the other people but you’re you’re not like losing like there’s definitely there’s a


difference campaigns in our first two three years where we lost money because it was like we’re spending every single


dollar of this campaign I’m making this unbelievable yeah because you want their brand to represent your brand yeah yeah


and so I think that’s just like kind of a reality um we like most of our campaigns were


kind of in that realm though like we we were pretty picky kind of from the beginning but I do think that there’s


those times where you kind of do stuff so it’s like yeah this isn’t the perfect fit but they need help and they’re a good client and let’s do that but then


there’s times where you’re like hey this is like the one to make our name on this year yeah so like one of those for us was manly bands we did like a campaign


and it’s still probably one of my favorite creatively videos um like several of the videos these are


the ring guys right yeah they do like all the different creative uh uh materials yes and they do like


Partnerships but like the main videos about like this husband or like these fiances that are getting rings and the


girl’s been dreaming about it her whole life and it’s just a hilarious video there’s so many funny yeah it’s super


inappropriate it’s great yes and then we also did for them uh a Lord of the Rings


parody that’s awesome I don’t think I’ve seen that one other guys but yeah yeah


it’s like just talking about like there’s eight normal guys three blue


collar workers yeah so it’s like a direct and it was like a shot for shot remake of the intro of Lord of the Rings


that’s awesome but with guys yeah like normal guys yeah no seasoned assist from


uh oh no parody law yeah oh yeah yeah that’s true we’re parodying it so uh but


yeah like that’s you kind of have those campaigns every once while so that’s something that I would say for for


agency people for agency owners is like like you just kind of have to decide that and that was really good advice


from Jason of uh look you kind of have to know and you just gotta be super


Scrappy and those first couple years of building an agency are really hard because you’re like


and I I had the luck of like being able to use some of my prior work is kind of like hey there’s other stuff I’ve done


yeah um that’s what’s hard it’s it’s it’s not I think this is where entrepreneurship


is in general is I always compare it to like you’re walking into like the most


crowded room you’ve ever seen and no one wants you to let you in the room


it’s like wall-to-wall people and you’re trying to like push into this room and everyone’s like no leave we don’t want


you here we don’t want another person coming in here yeah and that’s what entrepreneurship is like and then once you get in it’s kind of becomes easier


because you can kind of you get into them and you’re like oh there is some space in here uh the room isn’t as full as it looked from the outside but from


the outside it looked like it was totally packed uh and that’s because people don’t no one’s gonna make it easy


for you to start a business and so so that’s what’s hard uh but that’s kind of what I would say to make it easier and


then over time you start getting you get way pickier uh you start being more selective with clients uh you can


hopefully get to the point where you’re auditioning them as much as they’re auditioning you it’s kind of like ah you


seem like a nightmare to work with yeah I’m not a good fit we had one of those last week yeah yeah 100 yeah it was an


easy separation yeah and that’s I think also where you start to just realize like


I think that’s one of the things kind of from day one that I I just was like I’m


not going to work with a company that like sells crappy stuff yeah yeah so


that’s kind of been a product yeah yeah so so it was always us and analyzing them and saying like is this a company


that I know I can blow up or create good results for that comes down to like we


were talking about at the beginning like this the foundation you really have to look at their problems obviously they’re


not going to blow up if they have a crappy product yeah like everybody that you guys have worked with have had a


like super interesting product it’s it’s kind of come back to those I guess like


four or five things you mentioned it’s like they’ve got a good product they have some kind of mission or Vision that


makes sense it relates to you know the broader uh demographic so you don’t have


to Target anybody really specifically and then you are able to add humor and


those four four things that’s really the the kind of the key yeah for you guys


yep and is that how pillow Cube came about then was you the pillowcube was an


original idea of yours where you just yeah make a pillow a square and but because that’s gonna be uh more of a


unique concept for people when they see it to say oh this is different unique I could blow something like this up or


what brought that uh idea to the Forefront of your mind yeah so it was an idea I like had it as a kid uh like I


had a friend growing up who was half Japanese his mama’s from Japan and she made a comment at one point


about like how as a kid her dad would make like wood boxes


uh for them to sleep on and wrap them in a towel and I was like oh it’s really


interesting and then I’d later in college like did research and was like oh there’s like pillows of all shapes


and sizes outside the US the US is so hyper focused on like this one shape but


if you go to like Tonga they have like these these like little boxes that they make uh and then they use banana leaves


to like kind of create like it’s almost like a little hammock for your head uh


it’s pretty wild and so I just always thought of that and then I had like a friend who had like an Ikea couch with


like that kind of flat rectangular armrest and I just was would take naps


on them like this couch is amazing yeah I have broad shoulders and so it’s


just always the worst and then uh we were looking at doing some work for a bunch of different mattress companies we


were kind of talking to three or four of them they were all sending us samples of foam and I had like thought that like


you couldn’t make a pillow like I really did like in college I even was like I wonder if I could like make a box


and then wrap it in foam interesting because I just didn’t think foam could be firm enough yeah and so all these


companies were sending us different foam samples and they were like really high-end memory foam so like yeah memory


foam that has like adaptive response so like the more you push on it the more it pushes back it copper in it they had


graphite in it different things yeah like all of these additives but I took


two of these samples that were 12 by 12×3 and I put two of them together and laid down was like oh my gosh that’s


like the pillow I’ve always wanted and so it really wasn’t like super strategic like that’s right it was


like it just kind of like kind of It kind of almost fell into your lap yeah so then I like spray glued those two


pieces of foam together that’s amazing I hired a seamstress to make a cover and I was just like showing people and one of


the things I really liked about it was people would see it and they’re like that’s like the stupidest idea you’ve ever had like that’s really dumb yeah I


love the input yeah yeah yeah yeah and then people would like lay on it and be like oh my gosh that’s really


comfortable though and I liked that it was like something that looked silly and seemed silly and then once you tried it


it actually is amazing yeah so then I made like 20 samples and I gave them out to a bunch of


friends and family and I was trying to figure out like how do I ask them


whether it’s great without asking them that because like of course my mom’s gonna tell me she loved it and my like


best friends yeah uh so I just asked everyone like hey I need those back like after a week I was like I need those


back I have to give them to other people and like no one would give it back everybody was like I was like oh we’re


on to something yeah and that was what was really interesting to me it wasn’t like like we were kind of talking as a team


because we were talking about how I wanted to start a brand I was like I want to start something


we’ve learned so many lessons from these great entrepreneurs that we’ve worked with like I think we should apply them


and so I was wanting to start a brand but everyone’s like dude mattresses is like


so crowded pillows input yeah yeah I was like yeah 20


mattress Brands oh yeah I mean there still are but they’ve whittled down but like I felt like five six years ago oh


yeah like the thing like yeah like yeah Lucid bamboo what about this like you


name it everybody was getting into it yep yeah so that was something that for me was like I don’t know but we just


kind of launched it on Kickstarter we’re like let’s just see maybe it’s like a nice little side hustle and we launched


on Kickstarter and it did okay like nothing crazy we did 40 Grand on Kickstarter it’s like nothing what was


your goal uh 10. oh okay so it was like nothing to be like pumped about it’s not like we raised a million dollars for


something um and then we did like 120 Grand the next month on


Indiegogo and then we just like kind of let it run as we were getting the initial order in and we probably did


like 50 to 60 Grand a month and then we the the first order came in in December of


2019. and we started shipping products and then we like


launched a new version that was wider it was just more shaped like a normal pillow that was just feedback from people like hey I love it when I’m on my


side but then I like it’s like falling off of a cliff yeah off of this tiny little pillow so we’re like oh that’s a


good point so we then launched like a new version of it um and that’s where like we’re like oh


we’re doing like couple thousand a day five thousand a day then it went to like 10 000 a day


and like 15 and 20. it was like dude we should probably focus on this yeah true organic or were you running out this was


just paid it was a lot of paid if you’re creative that you guys had built for it yep yeah but it was just like working


and it was like man this is crazy uh and so as we started to see that grow and


scale it was like we should focus on this like yeah it’s really great so that’s that’s really and that’s still I


still use a lot of those things like when we look at any company one that’s still one of our first tests is like hey


send us a bunch of product and then we go put it in like all the offices of like pillowcube and


creatively and stairside and and I just put it in the middle before I even get feedback I just like put it in the


middle of the the lobby and just see if it disappears interesting and if it


doesn’t that’s like super concerning for me yeah it’s like hey if we if we give


a hundred people the opportunity to take free stuff and they don’t they’re like I don’t want it I didn’t


want it for free and not only they’re not just any random people too they’re people that have had that prop like yes


they’ve been exposed to all of these kind of products so it’s I think even better like use cases those people


aren’t touching it yeah No One’s Gonna touch it and there’s and there can be exceptions where it’s like hey that just


might not be Their audience but it most of the time Ring’s pretty true yeah uh and so that’s kind of like test one and


then test two is you know what’s feedback what do people think do they like it when they use it you know


sometimes we’ve had people like oh I want one of those that’s amazing and then they take it home they’re like it kind of doesn’t work yeah or they’re


making a lot of claims that I don’t think they can hold up so yeah so that’s really interesting I think there’s


multiple ways to approach business right you can approach it from I want to be


third fourth or fifth in the space and just carve out my own piece right I mean we’re in the agency space there’s a


hundred thousand digital marketing agencies so we just got got to find a way to make ourselves a little bit


unique or find that unique approach that we can take that makes us interesting and a lot of that has come from our


culture and what we stand for and I think that that makes Brands a little bit more interested but


um there’s kind of two approaches where if you were to go and put a knockoff of a minky blanket in the office and you


know a lot of people would just be like oh another blanket in the office yeah yeah you’re not starting a wildly successful independent brand with that


so yeah that’s what’s kind of cool is you’ve taken the unique approach of saying we’re gonna focus on products


that have uh almost that zero to one methodology that uh Peter Thiel talks


about yeah yeah like pillow Cube’s a great example of it looks completely different from a normal pillow so people


are going to be like oh initially that looks kind of weird but it looks weird for a reason yeah like what’s the reason


it looks weird yeah I used a pillow Cube for the first time


camping oh yeah and I thought this is a great pillow for camping is it small and


compact it was the square yeah and I didn’t I had forgotten one my dad had like four pillow cubes in his camper


dude memory foam while camping and not taking up too much space I don’t know there might be something there yes


with a small travel version yeah if you don’t already have something we’re launching yeah we’re launching a travel


version this fall cool it’s like comes with a compression bag so you can roll it up because that’s like one of the


biggest requests I’m sure like hey I love it but I need to take it on my you know my trips and yeah when I go I like


can’t sleep with that one so I’m not waiting to like every time I go on a trip even if I’m in a 10 times more


comfortable than mine the hotels have the worst pillows you need to get hooked up with Marriott or something and then


yeah the problem is they like all spend no money on their phone yeah that’s true zero we talked to Delta at one point and


they were like oh we love it and like Put It In First Class yeah we’re like oh like how much are you guys spending on


like your first class pillow and it was like 80 cents yeah but if you go into first class now they literally have like


a pillow Cube knockoff oh really interesting so first class at Delta now has like a it’s like a cube shaped bag


full of just fluff but it looks like a pillow Cube but it’s like so soft that


when you lay on it it’s like it just sounds yeah yeah well I guess you have to approach the like luxury brands or


something huh yeah like I’m on Jerry’s of the hotel world or whatever yeah so


um to kind of wrap this up I’d love to get an understanding of


what advice do you have for young entrepreneurs and specifically since we


have you here like for us uh yeah you know starting and growing our company and we’d love to get into the consumer


product good space eventually and utilize our firm to do that so what advice do you have for people like us


that are trying to get into that yeah so I would say like my first piece of advice is always like


do follow things that you’re excited about and that you’re interested in


um and that you really can see like hey this is something that like people love


uh that’s always like one of my biggest kind of like investing hacks is when


people come to me and they’re like we’re gonna be billionaires I’m like you’re not gonna make it like it just always


happens like anytime someone’s talking about the money it’s like the being an


entrepreneur is a really tough way to make money um it’s just it’s a it’s a very like


difficult space uh it’s high risk High reward and so


I always love when people approach it instead from like hey I love the craft like I love building companies I would


do it for free I’d do it for free I love helping people be like yeah yeah I start I love helping other people and I also


start companies that don’t work and so and have like everyone has those failures and so you have to love doing


it and so then I would say for young entrepreneurs like just do something I think too often uh people get stuck


like what’s the best idea what’s the thing that’s going to make me the most money what’s what’s the thing that’s going to be huge and it’s like just do


something like I didn’t think pillowcube was gonna be a thing a thing uh that now


has like 50 employees you know it’s like I just was like this is kind of cool yeah and it just organically became that


so as agency owners my my advice is like just create something that’s very


different from agency and try it like try some consumer product and you’ll learn a bunch


um you’ll learn you know about ideas and how to come up with good ideas and what do people want but follow those steps of


like get something see if people want it uh


take it away or try to take it away see if see if they resist and if they do it’s like okay now try and get them to


pull out a credit card as soon as possible like everything we do we are always trying to see like can I get


someone to pull out their card no and pay for it as quickly as possible like the sooner you can get to the test of


can I have it back and then the test of will you pay for it like the better


every single business we know incubate and start those are the two things I want to get to as quickly as possible


try and come up with something that you’re like hey I’m excited about this I think this could have an impact could be


something that’s new and different don’t make me too stuff it’s the worst uh and


then just like see if people like it test it test it quickly as possible like pillowcube was legitimately a 50


prototype I mean it was just so simple and I wasn’t going out and then trying


to say you know and it was also like I wasn’t trying to go out and figure out like is


this a billion dollar company like it was just like do people like this thing yeah um stair slide was the same thing like


when I first saw the stair slide like the second I sat I was like oh I can sell that like I just know I know I can


pitch oh yeah yeah like I have four daughters and I was like they would love this thing they would it would keep them


busy they would play with it all the time and so that like I kind of separate and that’s also where


I kind of separate like ideation is kind of where people typically like going in


entrepreneurship one of the best things about starting an agency is it’s much more like learning how to run a company


there’s so many other parts of being an entrepreneur like billing and invoicing


and managing employees and hiring and yeah uh how do you sell how do you price


like all of those things and I feel like typically what we encourage young people


to do is start with ideation which is the hardest part of Entrepreneurship it’s really hard to come up with good


ideas it is yes it takes a lot of time you may as well start executing yes execution’s everything yeah at the end


of the day so I’m definitely a little uh like it’s definitely kind of my opinion


and I’m a little jaded towards this but I definitely love more of the approach


of like just start a business where you can make some money uh that’s why I loved doing service work because it was


like Hey you get paid up front uh and you get paid to do work and then


it gives you Freedom um being able to spend like we had a client who needed to push a shoot back


and then it was like Hey we’ve got like a week we don’t have anything planned this week like we have work to do yeah


but we could spend like most of this week and that’s the week we did the pill Cube Kickstarter oh wow because it was


just like we have kind of a free week uh let’s just do it this week and so we got it done in a week and then launched


it like two months later and that’s pretty that’s something that you don’t have like when I was in school


trying to come up with ideas was like okay I’ve got this great idea like how do you do it yeah instead of just no


money yeah we have no resources I don’t know any investors for sure and it’s like instead if you build a service


business where you can just have some of the stuff now you all of a sudden you have a team you have some free cash it’s


like you could probably throw in some money on an idea and so that’s where I always tell brand new like college


students like hey don’t think that the first step to being an entrepreneur is being the founder CEO who comes up with


ideas yeah like my first step is like build just some kind of company that can make money


or go work at a startup I think those are two things that are much better to do first because you just start learning


those things and you start having some of those lessons ideation like I said is really hard it’s hard to come up with


brand new ideas yeah um every headspace for it yeah yeah it’s


hard to find the time it’s hard to find the time exists but it’s hard to say I’m gonna plan ideation like yeah yeah when


it’s almost like planning meditation yeah and when you’re worried about so many other things like if you have your


basic things taken care of it’s much easier I think to have the headspace to do it so and that’s what I always now


now what I’m always looking for is I’m always just looking for friction like where is their friction


um and I think that’s a key thing is like if you’re if if for you guys if you’re like hey we now have this agency we have


employees we have more headspace because our Necessities are taken care of that’s where I would start is like where do you


see friction around you where do you see everyone going this way and you can go the opposite way uh and so that’s that’s


what I just kind of keep an eye out for and I’m always just writing down ideas of like interesting everyone’s going


this way with this thing and no one’s doing this or a parallel industry which


I think is ahead of us in this thing uh went this way and it


worked really really really really well so we should now take this industry and do the same to the same time I actually


recently was thinking about that in the agency space because we don’t take on a lot of e-commerce we we’ve always been


lead gen yeah and work with service businesses but we are potentially acquiring an e-commerce agency and as I


look at it and I look at all the e-commerce agencies around us they’re all charging percentages or like these


tiered plans and it almost made me want to cause friction or you know zag where


they’re zigging because I thought why don’t we just charge a flat rate for everyone like it doesn’t matter if


you’re Coca-Cola or thread wallets like we’re just gonna charge a flat rate and


disrupt the industry because I I have never met an agency that does a flat


rate yeah so um that was like a small ideation that yeah maybe this would work and we could


really change the game you know that like homie approach almost to the agency world so yeah dude it’s it’s always just


looking for those things it’s really fascinating and uh that’s what always it’s amazing how it


works all the time yeah I mean you look at liquid death going back to that Yeah we actually just launched our own ice


cream brand I saw that the cold Cold Case right yeah the Cold Case ice cream uh delivered yeah delivered to your


house and the idea was very similar we like saw hey this is really popular in other categories categories uh the


experiential is is like really big and then our our other thing that we’re doing is every month we have six new


flavors and so no one in ice cream is doing that everyone’s ice cream is like


same flavors for years yeah for sure so we’re like people are like that’s insane


how are you doing that how are you coming up with six new flavors yeah like we already have like a hundred yeah uh so we’re just just and what we want to


get to the point where we’re doing it weekly or or twice a month and the whole true I mean True Crime right now is like


huge it’s a massive yep just I guess a little my maybe micro industry I don’t


know I don’t I wouldn’t maybe consider true crime in Industry you want to get it too but it’s very something that a


lot of people are talking about a lot of people are interested in it’s my wife’s favorite thing on them yeah so I think it’s I think it’s really cool that like


you’ve got all of your your flavors almost have a little story attached to every single one of them and I think it’s really cool so yeah well we have


loved having you on and honestly very helpful for us because I feel like you’re years ahead of us on what we


would like to get into in the future so yeah seriously appreciate it yeah cool thanks for having me


yeah well thanks for coming on we don’t have like a massive outro or anything but we’d love for like if you want


people to find you this is the time to kind of plug you your personal brand if you’d like yeah so probably the best


thing is just to go to Our Brands you can follow me on LinkedIn uh Jay Davis uh so follow me on LinkedIn and then go


to any of our Brands and see if there’s a product you love and we do have is the the new ice


cream brand it’s super fun is that only delivered in Utah or is it no it’s delivered across the country so awesome


and it’s kind of like a it’s ice cream that our flavors you’ve never tried like


one of them is black licorice and pineapple base which is crazy it sounds


weird but it’s really good and then blue cornmeal cornbread with brown sugar and


then like a lemon Meyer lemon drizzle and then there’s some like there’s some


more normal like Biscoff uh with sweet cream and some stuff like that so


honeycomb very cool so there’s some more normal flavors and then there’s some like really crazy stuff and that’s


each drop every month will be kind of that same like something that’s a little more standard up to the craziest ice


cream you’ve ever eaten it kind of reminds me of that the new uh there’s that like luxury cookie brand it’s like


300 last time yeah last time I can’t remember the name but yeah very similar yep so anyways cool cool thanks for


coming on yeah thanks for having me right now



English (auto-generated)

Share the Post:

Related Posts

Contact us today and get an audit.

Get More Leads, Close More Deals.