John Moore’s Journey: Transforming Men’s Mental Health – Scroll Sessions

In Episode #11 of Scroll Sessions, hosts Dan Page and Shane Hickenlooper delve into a heartfelt conversation with John Moore, a man on a mission to revolutionize men’s mental health. Here are the insightful takeaways from their discussion.

The Genesis of a Mission

John’s story is one of transformation. Once a professional deeply embedded in the realms of advertising, graphic design, and social media, he experienced a significant shift in his career path. John believes in multiple callings in life, and his current one is decidedly different: focusing on men’s mental health. This shift was surprising to John, who admittedly struggled with vulnerability and openness, traits not commonly associated with traditional masculinity.

A Personal Struggle with Mental Health

John’s journey into mental health awareness began post-mission, returning to a world vastly changed by technology. Struggling to adapt, he was eventually diagnosed with ADHD, marking the start of a rollercoaster journey with mental wellness. A pivotal moment came with a layoff from a job he loved, which deeply impacted his sense of self-worth. This incident, among others, highlighted the intricate relationship between one’s career, identity, and mental health.

Stepping into Entrepreneurship

The path to entrepreneurship for John was not straightforward. It was marked by trials, including a challenging stint at a job that seemed perfect on paper but felt misaligned with his passions. These experiences, coupled with personal struggles, led him to take a leap of faith into entrepreneurship, encouraged by friends and a deep-seated desire for more meaningful work.

Building a Community for Men’s Mental Health

One of John’s most notable initiatives is the development of a community-focused platform aimed at men’s mental health. This platform, which includes an app and various programs, offers a safe space for men to share their struggles and victories. It’s a response to a noticeable gap in accessible resources for mental wellness, particularly for men.

The Significance of Brotherhood

A crucial element of John’s mission is fostering a sense of brotherhood. He emphasizes the importance of men supporting each other, being open about their challenges, and reaching out for help when needed. This brotherhood is not limited by background, belief, or status; it’s a universal support system for all men.

Future Aspirations: Expanding the Impact

Looking ahead, John envisions a global movement. From organizing retreats and events to possibly setting up men’s wellness centers, his ambition is to create a holistic approach to men’s mental health that transcends cultural and social boundaries. He dreams of a future where mental health discussions and support are as commonplace and accepted as any other health conversation.

John Moore’s story is not just his own; it’s a mirror reflecting the struggles and aspirations of many men grappling with mental health issues in a rapidly changing world. His journey from a career in advertising to becoming a beacon of hope in men’s mental health is a testament to the power of transformation and the importance of community support.

Listen to the full episode for more in-depth insights and inspiring stories from John Moore’s conquest to change men’s mental health.

Podcast Transcript


[Music] John thanks for being here today we’re


excited to talk with you thanks for having me I appreciate that and feel honored to be here with you guys oh


we’re stoked to have you um let’s get a little bit of an intro from you tell us what it is that you do


right now uh with here okay well just a little bit of background on


me of kind of um of my of my family and just upbringing is uh I’ve got I’ve got a


wife her name is Kelly um we met up at at uh college at BYU Idaho


yeah good old Rexburg no shorts Allowed no shorts no


flip-flops um we met there and uh we have four kids


and one on the way coming in August oh no oh that’s awesome man I’m in August I


don’t think I knew that last time we were chatting uh yeah I can’t I can’t remember when did we go to lunch and


think that’s a while ago well I was like I just had uh our little second daughter just a couple was like six weeks ago but


yeah congrats yeah thanks so you’re not sleeping much maybe it’s all right last day I never sleeps much well last night


was rough but it’s been okay five six hours it’s okay so who needs sleep yeah


um so yeah anyway I I uh I have a background in advertising graphic design


visual media social media type stuff um graduated in 2016 from BYU Idaho and


have been in either marketing uh positions or graphic design or creative


Direction marketing Direction uh ever since um but a lot of that has nothing really


to do with where I am now which is where I feel like I’m stepping into my my


calling I like to call it yeah um I think we all have callings multiple


times uh throughout our lives and I’m stepping into it a calling right now


which is um focusing on men’s mental health uh which if you would have asked me seven


years ago where if if I if you would have told me that seven years ago I would have been


uh shocked and surprised because I was very much somebody that uh that did not


open up about my feelings I I was always happy to to listen to people


um but I’ve I uh I tried to be vulnerable and authentic and open up because I know it goes against my nature


as a man to do that yeah um and so I’ve kind of uh


stepped into this new phase of life where I’m where I’m here to to listen to other men and to to gather a community


of men together I guess that’s the the bird’s eye view um and I’m sure we’ll get into the


nitty-gritty details of it but uh yeah so that’s did that answer the question I think so totally like what well and my


question is how did you make that transition like from where you were was


there a catalyst was there something that happened that kind of made you become vulnerable yeah that’s a good


question um you know it’s funny I usually when I talk about this it’s usually in the span


of the last just couple of years um but this morning I was thinking about it


um and I realized going back to um right when I got home from my mission


in in 2010 and 13. where did you go uh Argentina oh


Argentina Blanca Messi Messi so you’re happy with the time to


be in Argentina yeah um so I got home from my mission and uh


I feel like while I was gone the world I’m sure everybody feels this way but the world completely changed before


there were there were you know some smartphones a few people had iPhones yeah when I got back everybody had them


and I was you know coming back from like no technology for two years I was coming back from just complete service to God


and all and all that and I come back and all of a sudden everything is online everything is on my iPhone everything


and I that’s really where um I think some of my mental health


challenges started um because I I came back to A Whole New World and and this new having this


iPhone um and I think that’s really what set off for me what later was diagnosed as


ADHD and uh and so that’s kind of where it started that’s where I really started to


struggle with um thoughts of uh feeling like I I don’t know if I can do


this whole adult thing I can’t focus for five seconds on one thing


um and and that’s really where it started and and that that’s not to say that I you know have been struggling


since then all the time but that’s really where I started to see a little


bit of a change in myself um so I started taking medication


um which was extremely helpful and it still is um and uh my wife jokes that the number


one reason is so that I can not think about food all day because that’s literally when I’m not on my medicine I


just want to eat I just I just want to eat yeah I just want to like because it’s easy to do that right before I want


to nap um and uh anyway so


so ever since that diagnosis it’s kind of been you know a roller coaster up and down but but having having that


medication has really helped me yeah um but then fast forward


um about a year and a half ago actually two years now I got laid off from a job that


um I felt like I was doing a really good job in and one that uh that I really loved and I I had a really good


relationship and you know I get it that people have to make decisions and I know a lot of people are are in that right


now where they are a result of some business decisions that have to be made and so I was part of a layoff that uh I


didn’t realize until about six months later just how much it affected my mental


health um and what I felt like was my worth that was uh


waning is that the right way I don’t know yeah sure well we were talking about movies before us yes


you attached your self-worth to your work and I feel like uh maybe I’m making


a big generalization but I think men in general do that oh yeah I feel like we we tend to attach our self-worth to one


obviously how successful we are or how successful other people are to to our


app our output in life right and that output could be output at home output at


work output with our friends output with our our other our spouse you know


whatever it may be right yeah yeah I think stereotypes are generally have some validity right totally and The


Stereotype of men associating identity with successfulness is definitely


something that a lot of men do I do it all the time I mean I grew up with it where and there’s no fall to my parents


at all but growing up I know that my parents would see someone who’s struggling and they’d be like oh yeah


like he’s really struggling right now and this and that and it would almost paint a picture of that person to make me


think like oh they’re not like great you know but uh


in all reality how much money make has nothing to do with how great of a human being you are how great of a dad you are


how great of a friend you are you know so um so those six months then you got laid


off you had Associated a lot of your identity with that and then what happened yeah so so that was


end of 2021 okay


um so that was it was in July I believe so yeah two years um


then I got another job in December um which I’ve talked about this openly and it it was


partially I think out of desperation uh because I needed to provide yeah but it


was also a really great opportunity uh but there were parts of me that knew


that it might not be the best fit um but I was also I felt like I was at


that time chasing a title and a salary it was a you know yeah an incredible opportunity it was remote


um you know it was six figures it was a great title it was all these things and uh so I finally made it right yeah


um as many would see in the world and then all of a sudden I all of these things started happening


um where I realized I think I’m not in the right place and and it was a bit of a career uh change for me as well in


that uh I was in Creative Direction which was you know very much on the creative side the photography


videography I’m preaching to the choir now with you guys but uh the graphic design content creation all of them


um which I really enjoyed I love the creative process I love creating things and collaborating with other people


um so I stepped into this new marketing director role which a lot of a lot of


places it’s there’s a lot of overlap with creative Direction and marketing but in this instance very different yeah


it was very much on the analytical side very much on the strategy side which I love Yeah but uh it was something that I


was starting to realize that I did not enjoy yeah uh the analytical the


analytical side and the um the numbers keeping track of that and you know I


know they’re important and necessary but in my brain I look at them and I just I just totally blank out you want to be


creative yes yeah um and I’m so grateful that there are people that can look at those things and


see value and and understand that read and understand the language yeah


um so anyway I’m I’m going way into the weeds of of all the details but it’s


good so so during that time I um I I had lots of


realizations one that like I said I was chasing maybe things that I didn’t that


weren’t going to bring me happiness um another realization was the industry


that I was in no matter how hard I tried it I I could not get behind it I could not get behind it and I feel like if


you’re the marketing director you have to be the number one cheerleader you have to like really preach you got to


believe in it you do yeah um and I do believe in it I think it’s a


great thing but it’s just not it wasn’t did it hit yeah it didn’t hit me and I know that sounds very Millennial of me


but I do feel like a big part of me has to have purpose behind what I’m doing and and maybe that’s part of me that


comes from the non-profit World from the um education world and so I I stepped


into this new role that was just totally different in every way in an industry that I had no knowledge about yeah in


electric vehicles in Industry Vehicles like tractors and all that yeah and also the stock market and all these things


that I’ve never cared about yeah and uh I shouldn’t say haven’t cared about the environment is important but it’s either


the stock market yes oh that’s important yeah exactly things that I’ve never been passionate yeah for sure


um and so I I stepped into that as well as having the realization that remote


work was not for me yeah um and I know that’s maybe controversial but I am very


strongly opinionated about this that for some people remote work is great for other


people it is not great and could you say that again yeah which yes oh you’re good


you’re good I didn’t I didn’t even notice yeah for some people remote work so for for


some people remote work is great and I’m happy for them remote work is not for me


hybrid is great but one of the realizations that I had was that I have to be with people I I


have to be with people and I can’t stare at a computer screen all day every day


for the rest of my life and a big part of that was the realization that with my with ADHD


um it’s super helpful for people that that experience that to be surrounded by


people and to be in the creative process getting their hands dirty um with other people yeah and so I kind


of had this huge Epiphany that uh that uh that I needed to make a change and uh


and a big part of it was because all of those things were affecting my mental health and it’s not like I was it was


like forcing me to to be suicidal or to be um all these things but uh but it was


definitely taking a toll um and not having dealt with the layoff as well and yeah processing that


um there were some other you know personal things that were going on in my life uh all of a sudden all of these


things just piled up yeah um and uh you know one day I was I was


trying to be a good boy and and uh was reading my scriptures was trying to


connect with God through prayer through all these things and and a distinct thought that I had was


um that if I if I keep my eye on him if I trust in him that he will


help me um if I want to go out on my own yeah because that’s what I was feeling


called towards was entrepreneurship was being able to be in charge of my own projects and be in charge of my own life


um and so as I received that uh inspiration


I realized uh that that I I could that I think I could do it and yeah and as I


move forward with faith I had uh one of my one of my best friends his name is Kyle braby and uh we met in some


conference room somewhere and we just brainstormed uh we just I put up a plan


of all the things that I want to accomplish in my life Here’s the the the the kingdom that I want to build here


are the millions of things that I want to accomplish in my life and he said


um this is all great he said but what can you do to get paid right now


um what can you do so that you can leave your job and uh provide for your family right now and for me that was really


transformational good friend oh yeah um instead of him saying like you can do it you know yeah whatever you want


that’s an amazing friend oh yeah he said this is all great but um you need to you you got a family you have a family you


need to you need to figure something out right now you don’t have to you don’t have to step into your life mission this


second you there are phases um I had a few other coaches as well that helped me out there too


um so I’m going way into the weeds of the details sorry no you don’t need to say sorry this is awesome and this led


into your murals um so around that time I was TR I I


noticed that other people were noticing my wife was noticing that I I was feeling the weight of the world I was


really starting to have some dangerous thoughts that weren’t suicidal but they were edging it and I usually say that


direction I didn’t I didn’t want to die but I didn’t want to live either I just needed a break I needed I needed to not


feel responsible for the world yeah um for just for just a few days for a


few weeks and what way do you feel like your wife was starting to notice like because I think sometimes it’s easy for


men to kind of hide all that oh yeah all the pressure all the mentor


yeah um you know there I had a few people that were noticing and it was


partially because I was on edge um that pressure I think was really getting to me and I allowed myself to uh


I was getting after my kids for silly little things yeah


um and I was taking it Taking My stress out on them


um I wasn’t doing you know I wasn’t doing all the things that I knew I should be doing


um I wasn’t taking care of myself physically spiritually mentally socially I just was not taking care of myself I


was in a bit of a a pity party and a uh just feeling lost and without purpose


and and she noticed how awesome of a wife though to be able to call that out so she and in a good way yeah like hey


figure your crap out you know but she has no problem telling me much


more really more understanding I think that’s it is rare for men uh where you


know we’re taught as men to be very nurturing towards our wives when they’re struggling mentally yeah where a lot of


times I think everyone spouses included are taught to just tell men to like


buckle up and get going so really good of her to notice that oh yeah she uh they even got to the point where I I


this sounds way more dramatic than it is but she uh intervention right she so she


was conspiring behind my back with one of my friends um to get me to go to uh CrossFit gym uh


because she knew that whenever I exercise whenever I lift or work out yeah that I’m usually feel better and


and act better and yeah so she was so she was doing some behind the scenes work there uh he finally convinced me


because there’s such a there’s there can be a stigma with Crossfit where it’s like for sure there’s you know such a bro culture there and whatever and


anyway they finally got me to go and and uh I walk in and it was like a ward


party like I walk in and I have all these friends there that I didn’t know that I didn’t know attended that gym and


it was just an amazing experience and and it was that that was one of the pivotal moments for me where I truly


understood the power of in-person community


um and how powerful it is to have people that are working towards something difficult and hard together together


that are pushing each other and ah the culture within this gym was just it was


so powerful so around that time as well I started to I had another friend on


LinkedIn Preston Smith who uh who was kept bugging me about these cold plunges


in the Provo River and I’m like these people are psycho why


um and I tried it once before and uh I I lasted about 10 seconds before I just


completely gave up and which is a good first step I guess it’s better than than nothing but


um but I I showed up finally after like three times canceling on them it was a Friday morning it was April 1st


I remember it because it was an important date for me and uh I go into they had this like fishing tent


um their ice fishing tent that they’ve created made into a sauna um he Preston made this homemade uh


heater thing um so we were nice and toasty in there and there were about six or seven of us


um and the first question that they asked so it was Preston Smith and then Ryan Hokinson who’s another great friend


and mentor and Coach to me now and he said he said he looked at


each of us and said can I make you uncomfortable today yeah do I have your permission to make you


uncomfortable which for me I’m like I’m living in the club please I feel uncomfortable with that


yeah um but I obviously agreed because no I


don’t want to be the guy in there that’s like no I’m not ready shoved in a warm tent yeah the warm tent with a bunch of other men yeah probably just your swim


trunks and you’re like I’m already uncomfortable oh man please yeah and I didn’t know any of them I don’t yeah I


don’t think I admit any of them um actually yeah except for Elliot Beeson who’s an incredible yeah oh great


yeah he was there too um so they they start to ask us these


difficult questions and uh we ended up of course I volunteered because I was


extremely fragile and vulnerable that at that moment and uh so we only had a few


minutes and uh so they start diving in to these questions and I start to like


really open up and um I actually surprised myself with how much I opened up because it’s so against


our nature as men I think um but they fostered an environment where I


was able to open up about my fears and about the things that I wanted to do yeah and within that like 15 minutes I’m


like getting the chills talking about it uh but as in those 15 minutes I I felt


like they completely changed my brain um and that sounds dramatic and I it can


tend to be dramatic but I mean it completely um so much so that they changed my brain


that I to believe that I could go into the freezing cold April 1st Provo River I


think there was snow on the ground um plenty and that I could go in for five minutes yeah so we all went in


um you know chest and and Below uh for five


minutes and it was if you haven’t done it before it is just


excruciating and you start to lose sense of feeling in your hands


um your your elbows your feet and other uh unmentionable places yeah that you


just you just start to lose feeling everywhere um but the real power came afterwards


when um you know the endorphins kick in and you all of a sudden just they wouldn’t


let us go straight to our towels they said just just let it sink in once you’re out of the water and you’re


shivering and um anyway so that moment for me was uh


definitely a a pivotal moment for me in the fact that somebody loved me enough


to to make me uncomfortable yeah um and to force me into something that


changed my brain um so that was a pivotal moment so there was finally taking care of my body


um exercising uh I was able to do hard things intentionally


um I I finally booked my first therapy appointment and all of these things including uh


trying to Make a Better Effort with my faith and stop being complacent I was


really making an effort to try and get out of this deep dark hole that I felt like I was in and


and uh it I I was starting to see the light and and


for me that gave me the confidence to feel like I could really


do this so that I could go on my own um so I kind of going all over the place but that after that


um after that cold plunge I think it was a week later I booked a call with the guys that led the cold plunge we talked


for a while another amazing session where they changed my brain even further and then a week later I I called them


and I said hey just want you guys to know I talked to my boss today told him the situation and that I’m leaving and


they’re like


you can’t convince me otherwise yeah that’s amazing five minutes in the cold water on April 1st really did it it’s so


crazy on April Fool’s Day no less yeah yeah


we’re already 30 minutes in I feel like we’re just great I listened to a podcast that’s three and a half I mean yeah Joe


Rogan man goes like four hours what yeah three four hours most of his episodes are like three three hours


which is crazy that really is crazy not that we’re trying to be Joe Rogan but yeah good


so I um from that moment uh I was I I


had this new resolve I felt like I was um ready to take a plunge no pun


intended into the cold Waters of Entrepreneurship and uh so then


um then I I talked to my boss a few weeks later I


ended up leaving for good and on that was a Monday when I had the discussion with my boss


um I think it was Tuesday when I went to lunch with Kyle braby and then we had a whiteboard session


um by Thursday and in that session by the way is when he said John why can’t


you just do the things that you love and are good at and can be paid for now


and uh so we I decided on brand identities um because I love I can just I can


create logos all day it’s so fun for me yeah I feel like I’m good at it I have a good eye for it


and uh and and the whole brand identity system uh the visual as well as core values and


mission statement and all that yeah um and then he said okay and then we


talked about murals as well so I thought okay how can we that feels like two completely separate things and so


originally I started with two different things number nine design Co which is


um which was for brand identities and just you know I guess freelance freelance cards design stuff yeah uh as


and then I had something called type murals which was for my mural business and for some reason it felt cool to have


like two companies when in reality yeah so then after like a month I just realized I just need to be promoting one


thing here yeah so I simplified um into number nine design and then you know murals are part of the design


process and so it all just fits under that can I ask a question about your wife um so with your why with this transition


I mean I’m married I remember transitioning into entrepreneurship I didn’t have any kids and my wife had a


full-time job so the risk was really kind of minimal I you know my rent was really cheap my wife had full-time job


and I thought hey give me eight months while you’re working and I I kind of had that really like logical simple uh


process through it where you took this like massive leap and you had kids at the time right I’m sure you have uh you


had expenses so what was that conversation like


was that okay or we can skip this no no it’s good I’m


open about this my wife is fine about me talking about it it was not good yeah we


we did not agree because yeah so mine didn’t agree with me either and we we


had a safety net so I I can’t imagine and and that was the the reason I so


going back um where we do agree most of the time


is uh is that each other is receiving guidance from God we’re trying to lead


our family with faith and and Lead it with God and allow God to lead our


family and us personally so we we trust that in each other yeah


um but this was really hard for her because she of of her background she


grew up in a home of teachers um she had a stable she had a stable


life um her whole life yeah uh and you know her dad was very consistent yeah very


consistent was never out of the job he started as an NFL kicker and then in the world and then ended up uh as a seminary


an Institute teacher um teaching you know Bible and Book of Mormon classes to uh to students yeah


around the country um they ended up in Hebrew but anyway she was used to that stability and to


that consistency he was home by 3 30 4 o’clock every day uh and he’s just an


incredible man and I actually posted about this recently and I um and expressed that it’s difficult to


follow that yeah he’s just he’s one of those men where you just look up to him and uh feel like a million bucks in his


presence and he’s just he’s just a good dad he’s a good man


um which is really hard to follow that consistency when you’re like me where you uh want to do a million things yeah


um the complete Polar Opposites yeah and so so it’s taken her um


it’s taken her a while but the one thing that I believe that she has trusted is


that I’m doing this because I felt like God


gave me permission to and that no that he that he would lead me along and that


has been so true in the last year and a half of this entrepreneurial full-time Journey


it’s been very up and down but um the whole time he’s been there


and I’ve seen miracles happen where um you know and this is this is kind of


hard for me to talk about and a little bit embarrassing but uh there have been moments where we haven’t been able to


make payments um you know we’ll have three months where we have more than enough and


everything’s going great and then all of a sudden you know because that’s how it is at a time and then no clients for


three months yeah um and so after a while you start to it


starts to get tough and that’s one of the biggest issues with most marriages is the financial situation and anyways


we uh there was a moment where I I wasn’t able to make payments and we had to have some


really hard discussions um between my wife and I have like expensive we have expenses we live in


Heber City yeah we um we have cars and children and


lots of difficult discussions but this has happened twice


and again this as a man this is hard to admit but there were two times where somebody randomly showed up


with an envelope of money and they said


God told me to do this so you better accept it yeah um and my wife is like she hates


depending on other people it makes it yeah she’s so ready to be self-reliant she’s so ready to to not have to depend


on anybody for anything for sure because she’s a very independent woman


um so that was hard for her but I I uh as much as I don’t like I don’t rely


on that that’s not the game plan however I am grateful for the people that are


listening to uh to their feelings and to God I believe um have you ever read the book The


Alchemist I haven’t I’ve read it but it’s such a great book it talks a lot about


um like Omens and the whole story of this guy who just felt called to do something


and the famous quote from it is when you want something and you put action into


it the whole universe conspires to work with you right and that’s like that’s


good yeah and it’s uh it’s really interesting that you bring all this up


because I think even from uh like it’s a very it’s the Christian viewpoint but even for people who aren’t


Christian there’s that concept of uh motion right and when you put yourself


in motion like the universe follows and I think that that’s a a great example of


that if you’re working as hard as you can everything comes and works with you for that so and and what’s crazy is I I


feel like once you the universe God whatever whoever chooses to call it


once you once you make a decision if you’re kind of floating those things


don’t they don’t show up right yeah but when you make a decision even if it’s you know you’re trying your


best to to do what’s best for you and for your family um I that’s that’s when I think the


stars align when things start to happen and there’s actually some research and you know I can’t like link it right now


somebody might might throw them under the bus but they were telling me some recent research that


came out where they can uh they can actually tie it to our our brains that


somehow they were able to track that when somebody was throwing something out


into the universe and manifesting it there were things that that were


magnetized towards them that they anyway I’m I’m gonna butcher the study you can cut that part out the more link the


stuff I don’t know where it is but someone told me about it so it’s got to be true but I I believe


um principally that that it is true that um that that there’s energy that there’s


matter and that we are all kind of part of this whole and we can’t you know


there’s space in between us but and we can’t see the molecules but but I think we’re all tied together especially when


there’s a purpose or a shared anything shared um there is power there for sure and


there’s there’s a a force a magnetized force that happens and I think


um I’m like really getting on a soapbox here oh no I love it but I think um I think that applies secularly religiously


whatever it may be um I I love that concept of like when you just make you just have to make a


choice and even if it’s the wrong choice you’ll find out pretty soon and then you’ll be redirected to the correct path


I think and I think I think that’s what’s expected of us we just yeah you just have to keep trying things and uh


and just yeah just don’t don’t give up yeah you know and you and executions everything at the end of the day yeah


you know it’s where the actual cool rubber meets the route you know yeah yeah energy inspires right oh yeah I


think when we put a lot of energy into something and people feel it they sense it that’s when uh things might not go


right every day but they when you look at it from a bird’s eye perspective things are


going in the direction they need to go yeah I mean I grew up with a dad who was an entrepreneur and he went about it a


much different way than I did where it was he took a lot of risk but he kind of


had to yeah um but he was so passionate about being an entrepreneur that I got to see him


take risks and in the short term sometimes they didn’t work but in the long term things really worked out well


and uh so it’s just a beautiful concept that I was able to witness and it I


think although the risk can be scary it’s beautiful for your children to see that like you’re willing to put passion


behind something and all of your energy into something and make a decision stick with it like that’s a it’s very powerful


so yeah it’s beautiful I love that yeah I love that that’s my that’s my dad too he he I grew up in an


entrepreneurial home and he’s always been been creating things and Building Things


and uh he’s one of my one of my big Inspirations because because of that I I


didn’t realize that until later like I didn’t even know entrepreneurship was a thing it’s not like he like he openly


talks yeah I didn’t wear a name tag yeah yeah same same totally fine he just


don’t he just you know had a job and yeah um I just thought it was just a job you know yeah but I didn’t realize he


was creating it and that he was creating his own world and for with purpose too right so for example I didn’t realize


that my dad sacrificed uh security and all these things not just to not have a


boss because I knew he was going to hate having a boss because he’s like me but I feel that yeah but what he really wanted


was to be at my soccer games and my brother’s soccer games right like he sacrificed so much even money and uh


stability so that he could show up and be with his kids and you don’t realize that until you get older and now that


you have kids and you see that too right yes it it’s so much more than just I


want to be an entrepreneur I want to be super cool and this and that it’s I want to be there I want to be present so


really awesome and that and that’s a huge part of of my draw towards entrepreneurship other than I want to do


all these things and fulfill all these ideas and it’s a it’s I want to be in control of my life I want to do things


right I want to do things where my family exactly what you’re saying where


my family is can be my priority where God can be my priority where taking care


of my mental and physical health is a priority because I realize how much when


it affects me when I don’t take care of all of those things the things that I believe matter most yeah and then you


have an energy that ripples into your family right and your friends and all those around you so when you take care of yourself you’re taking care of others


yeah and this really all kind of compounded for you I think and turned into here like so what was the


transition I guess from where where you were and you’re experiencing kind of all these things starting these businesses


and then then comes here by the way your mural business we still need to do something yes because your murals are so


cool I I went to grounded companies yeah and then uh you did I saw another one


you did I was like I had no idea John Moore did this but they are so good they’re so cool we gotta like pop them


up on the screen because there you go tell me yeah can you have


that later then um thank you that’s kind of you I it’s it’s funny the


I had done one mural first enzyme College yeah yeah when we did the transition transition from ldsbc to


Ensign College well you don’t you did not only that you did like all their visual design for the whole entire


inside of the building it’s pretty cool yeah we I’m proud of the work that our team did for sure it was


um it was a lot of fun and the opportunity of a lifetime um to to lead them through that


transition um but part of that was they gave me trust yeah um to do a mural and where I


hadn’t really I did one on my garage so they saw that I could do it um kind of but so that was my first


mural for somebody else and so I had one or two under my belt yeah but I loved it


so much that uh that’s part of where I wanted to go and so I thought my you know Kyle convinced me that I should do


it and so um I did it so um going back to the question of here


uh this it feels like a separate timeline although they’re all intertwined but um


going back the last couple of years uh and this is a crucial part of where here


Brotherhood comes from is that I had some friends that I was a


missionary with um as well as went to high school with who have all taken their lives


um have died by Suicide and they’re all every suicide is tragic


um but these were so shocking it was as shocking as Robin Williams uh shocking


as twitch who died last year yeah um because it seemed happy yeah yeah and


that’s and that’s where um that’s where it’s the most shocking is they look happy beautiful you know


handsome guys beautiful wives children money they seem to have it all support


system even their families yeah um and that’s not that’s not to say that their families weren’t supportive or


giving them all I think in MO in all those cases they were they were trying their best


um and sometimes we there’s just we can’t put a reason on it right yeah um


so there were a few times and I’ve spoken about this story but I there was one night where I woke up in the middle


of the night with somebody in my head um long story short I intended to reach


out to them it was somebody that was in a more of an acquaintance a common friend um I couldn’t even remember his name


because it had been like 10 years and finally came to me the next day and uh I either tried to reach out or tried


to find him and I couldn’t or something then I forgot about it yeah then I found out three weeks later that uh that he


had taken his own life which was absolutely you know uh fertile well brutal


um and totally unexpected so that experience was another pivotal


moment for me um as well as a few Mission buddies uh that that were also extremely shocking


um and then so this is coming back to the timeline of the last year and a half


um after finding these resources after finding a lot of these things that were working for me and not saying that I was


cured by any means but I was in a much put you on a better path yes my my mental Fitness was much better my mental


health was much stronger than it the the year started out as and this is just


last year so um so then all of a sudden in the fall of last year


um I had a good friend who was really struggling um and then I had another I had a loved


one who was also struggling and I found out about them having suicidal thoughts


at the same time and then uh so I I felt like this I felt


this draw towards that and then all of a sudden twitch um who’s you know the super famous


dancer um he he took his own life so these


three things at once just knocked me to the ground yeah


um in the realization that there are so many guys who are struggling


there’s so many people it’s it’s a it’s a problem yeah universally for sure


but I but in my life in my experience as it was men it was men that were struggling


and uh I I started to realize I I need to reach out to my friends even if they


look happy like I just need to be a better friend I need to reach out to them ask them how they’re doing even if


they look like they have it all together yeah for sure so a lot of these thoughts were coming in and at the same time uh I


was trying to I started to see these kind of men’s groups popping up


uh and I really wanted to join one of them I I I I love being part of


brotherhoods and communities and and I saw these communities pop up


um I’ve been following Steve Weatherford on Instagram for a while he’s a Super Bowl kicker and I loved what he was


doing in Wim Hof um and and Gathering these men to do really difficult things and I wanted to


be a part of something like that yeah um and uh so I started I started like trying to find these different groups


and all these uh things and you know these Retreats and that promised to be


life-changing yeah and uh they all tended to be 5 000 bucks a month or for a retreat


which you know for guys like me I’m like how could I how does anybody afford this


unless yeah it’s a little early it’s a little Out Of Reach yeah for the average person and not to dog on those at all


because they do great but I do it’s amazing work that they do yeah I I do think that there is a


a stigma of like men’s mental health is a luxury it is right and that luxury is


expensive so if you want to have good mental health it can be fit yeah right so that that’s always frustrated me that


it’s like okay I want to go bond with men it’s gonna cost me five grand to do it like that then I still feel stuck


yeah right yeah so so I think you have five grand right yeah right which I


think is a great I am again I’m not it’s it’s a great investment if you have that I go for it I it’s it’s amazing the work


that they do and it’s very worth that however what about the peasants like me who can’t afford things like that and so


I started to see this need of this gap of accessibility that men have to these types of brotherhoods to these Elite


groups to these um to this community um and so that’s really where these


thoughts started to happen so so a few months later well so when when the the moment


happened where I had those friends and loved ones and twitch I remember having a discussion with my wife saying because


I talked to her about this stuff before and and uh and and I said Kelly it is I


am feeling called and I’m feeling like it’s like yeah um like there are people out there that


are struggling and I I can’t stand to hear for one one more friend or acquaintance or


whatever just dying by suicide because they for whatever reason um for me that is it is never an option


um it shouldn’t be an option I wish it wasn’t an option um and uh so


ended up uh that was a pivotal discussion and moment where I’ve


I finally said okay I need to act on this so uh December so I’m trying to be


active on LinkedIn and post and every once in a while I’ll throw some statistics out about men and and suicide


within men and um like did anybody know that men are


almost four times more likely to die by Suicide or that 80 percent of suicides are men or and and I started seeing


these statistics and they were just like staggering yeah um so then


um in about November December I see a post by a guy named Justin Bray


um who uh who wrote about Brotherhood he how he he grew up with a bunch of sisters like


like me I have I have six sisters and and three brothers oh my gosh but my brothers are all like 10 plus years


older than me and so by the time I was like six or seven they were they were out of the house or and they were busy they’re teenagers so it was you know I


have an amazing relationship with all of my brothers now as adults and we’ve always been we’ve always had a good


relationship but yeah we’re we’re close really close as as brothers as adults


um but but I saw this post from Justin and ended up reaching out had a few


interactions and one of my goals at the beginning of the year was to do LinkedIn lunches I wanted to take somebody to


lunch every week start to get to know people and just I don’t know why but I felt like that was


supposed to be really important so Justin was at the top of my list and


um we went to lunch and I I told them about this idea of creating an apparel brand


that was centered on men’s mental health where you can go somewhere and if you


wear a shirt that person knows that you’re a safe place to talk to you yeah if you’re at a


networking event and somebody’s struggling and feeling like they’re anxious they can come to you and they


can vent or they can talk to you or they can share their struggles that you’re a safe place and so that’s really where


this started and I’d been wanting to dive into apparel for a long time yeah coming in from the world of Graphics


yeah like I I kept seeing all these designers building these Brands and I’m like I can do that


um some cool t-shirts yes yeah and I’m realizing how much harder it is now than than I thought uh when you’re not trying


to drop ship not that that’s super easy either but uh anyway so we we have this discussion and it was it was a beautiful


lunch he was crying I was emotional it was just um it was a pure moment of Brotherhood and


where going to our point before when you make a choice and a decision on


who you want to be things just happen God puts people in your place


and things just start to align with who you are yeah like magnets it’s just


unbelievable so Justin shows up in my life um we a few weeks later had a whiteboard


session um and I told them again all the there’s


a common theme I guess um I really like them they’re nice uh so


we get sponsored by expo at this point I should we should reach out to them hashtags not sponsored hashtag should be


but um yeah so so we had a really great talk


there and and I was telling I was telling Shane before that uh


in that in those first couple of weeks he told me he said actually no it was at our lunch he said I just want you to


know I’m just warning you I said I tend to become more passionate about things than when people bring it to me


and he said and this is I feel so strongly about this he said I’m just warning you that I might overtake


overtake a little bit you know Wonderful just as it seems if we interviewed


Justin on the podcast he definitely has that personality oh he’s a girl he’s a great guy he’s a go-getter all right


yeah I joke about this all the time but out of a place of gratitude um I can’t keep up with him and that I mean


that as literally as I possibly can I just can’t keep up I’m very thorough yeah we we come from two separate


backgrounds his agency yeah and mine is we both are in the marketing World in different parts his is digital marketing


and and paid ads all that stuff and mine is very much creative and the advertising and you know so I’ve history


we’ve historically worked with similar people but yeah mine is my background has been very in-house


um in-house teams thorough in-depth stuff and his is very like 100


brands at a time yeah which stresses me out yeah um which is yes it’s very agency life and


so for him it stresses me out for you thank you


yeah so so we come from very different worlds so I’m I’m very thorough and yeah and


somewhat slower and we’ve had a lot of DT we’ve had a lot of heart to Hearts without this and


he is very quick and like testing a million things and putting things out there and so we’ve had to like realize


that um both are important are important but we have to kind of we have to meet in


the middle a little bit yeah and so that there can um so that I can have my thoroughness


and so that he can have his quickness up anyway so we uh we start uh we we start


this this brand called here um you know it’s just starting as an


apparel company and before long we realized that is way bigger than that we


we and I don’t think it ever meant to be just that yeah I felt like you know if we could go a Cotopaxi model where or


Toms or whatever we’re giving back where we’re Mission LED it could be really successful and uh that’s that’s what we


decided to to do and to start with and and we fully uh we didn’t talk about


this like becoming a full-time thing anytime soon just like let’s just test the waters and sure see if there’s even


a response and whoo yeah you guys there was a response like the the second we


started sharing our stories more often uh I’m still blown away I’m still every


single day we’re both waking up to messages from men all around the country


and even world of saying just thank you or please keep talking about this or


moms or wives saying please get this message to my husband somehow or my


boyfriend or my son or my brother um because they need this so badly and


we you know and I I get the chills just saying that because um I think I think we’re in a perfect


storm in our culture right now post pandemic yeah um we’re in uh this and I


don’t want to get political but we are in we’re in a war a culture War right now where one side is taking gender one


way and another side is taking gender the other way where one is almost uh


they’re trying to make gender non-existent and on the other end they are trying to make it like men are


should go eat raw liver all the time and live in the mountains no harm you know


it’s the extremes either way whatever way you look it’s extreme and and uh


can’t just be human anymore you can’t yeah and that’s


you’re good that’s one of those things yeah anyway


and extreme so we were talking extremes on either end extremes yeah so there’s


there’s these two extremes that are talked about on the news social media


you know it’s the topic of every political conversation I swear but what about like the 98 in the middle yep and


that’s probably a false statistic but but in the Middle where there’s like there’s a bunch of men out there and I


think the majority of men that are like that don’t want to have these hard shells but we don’t know how to not have


them but at the same time that I think have a common belief that men need we need to


have strong men in this world and if we don’t have strong men in this world we will cease to exist yeah we have to have


strong men in our culture and in our world um and that but what that means and what


that looks like is not what we think of historically yes we should be physically strong but it’s it needs to be more


well-rounded and that’s where you see the fringes of for sure where it’s like there’s there’s a bunch of bodybuilders


and they’re talking about masculinity in men and then there’s spiritual leaders who focus on that which is you know all


those things are needed but I I didn’t see in the world a whole a holistic approach a whole approach to


the majority masculinity and and and what what a well-rounded Health would


look like which is spiritual aspects physical aspects social aspects and um


and emotional did I say that emotional mental yeah yeah um


and so that’s that’s where I feel like most people most men are yeah um but we


just need permission to be able to get there to do it and we need permission from other men and that’s that’s how


masculinity uh is is needing permission from either a father figure a brother


figure um to be able to to do that because you see another man who you who you see as


masculine yeah who’s opening up and you’re like oh that means I can yeah for some reason that’s how we treat


masculinity yeah um is we we look at our our father or get kept for some reason for sure


uh I don’t know where I was going with all this uh keep me on track but no no I


think it’s possible and it’s reminding me of my my own my own father’s heavily involved in a lot of this stuff and has


been for many years and led men and various different callings within our church also outside of the church and


with community-led organizations but yeah like a couple years ago my dad


started a very what’s become a very very large Facebook group um in his church calling that he was in


noticed that a lot of men were lonely as his term experience like significant


amount of loneliness from the outside um you know they everything was perfect you know they they had you know plenty


of involvement in their what we’d call Community involved in their family


involved at work but they felt extremely lonely and so it started this group and


I mean they’ve it’s it’s grown to many thousands of people and they’ve been


able to help a lot of people from committing suicide and then he got involved with uh the Red Barn Academy I


don’t know if you’ve heard Red Barn up North so he’s on the board he served as the chaplain


for many years and now he’s on the board but and seeing what they’re doing with


their community and with uh you know the other side Academy in Salt Lake love that this is pretty cool but it it there


is a catalyst and it’s becoming I think one a much easier thing to talk about


and two I I feel like it’s the right time you know I feel like it’s a it I


mean it’s always the right time but I feel like the last couple of years it’s kind of come to a fruition I feel like


this year and uh hopefully we’ll be a lot more talked about well in the


younger generation I don’t know if you’re on Tick Tock but sometimes I I am on Tick Tock I am awesome way too much


yeah um but I see interviews where uh people will go around college campuses and this


actually is a good idea for here maybe you guys could do this at some point but they’ll go around college campuses and they’ll interview girls and they’re


they’ll say like he’s a 10 but he’s in therapy or they’ll say uh right right or


he’s in therapy is that a good or bad thing and every girl is always saying like he’s a tent if


he’s in therapy if he’s going crazy it’s a green flag right yeah because and I


love that the younger generation is behind that that concept of uh we want


the men in our lives to be emotionally connected where growing up our grandparents older generation


like no way like no way is super hard to one convinced to go to therapy to ask


your grandpa to go to therapy see what happens yeah yeah you’re gonna get smacked probably it’s like that’s witch


fuel I don’t know what you’re talking about well and I think if I what’s really interesting I think about my own grandparents most of them have passed


away but my my grandpa served in World War II uh was 18 and drove an ambulance


on in the front lines of Normandy and in France and in Germany liberated several


concentration camps and I’m like wow well I know amazing right but also


the absolute trauma and everything that they would have witnessed and most if


not all of them coming home with major PTSD oh yeah never getting like treated for it never first of all not really


knowing what it was because back then they didn’t really I don’t even think PTSD was a thing but it definitely was a


thing I think every single day the name yeah that’s more of a better instead it was callous of mine come home


get your family going yeah and that’s exactly what he did you know and I’m sure his life maybe would have been


better had he and it was great granted my grandpa had a fantastic life but um


you know maybe maybe things would have been a little different I don’t know um yeah so with here you’ve got uh


obviously apparel but now you say you’re Mission LED um how are you Mission LED and are you


donating a piece or are you coming up with programs like what’s the concept behind that yeah so I I like to think


that we’ve been mission-led from the very beginning right where it’s um which it’s interesting we had we had


a conversation um we had a conversation I think uh two


months ago uh we launched officially May 1st so we’re about two months officially


until we’ve been building it since January but yeah um at one point I think in May


um Justin and I had this realization like we should probably look at some numbers you know we’ve done a few here and there


to but um we felt so called to it that um that


we didn’t even consider thinking about if it would even make sense financially yeah yeah you


know we’d seen it work before but um but Justin you know he when we had that


realization he said I’ve I’ve always tried to do things the other way around yeah you have to make it has to make


sense logically first and and uh he said that’s why this feels so different is because we’re trying to


uh we’re trying to be mission-led we’re trying to uh that was our mission first


bigger than yourselves before you monetize it I guess yeah you know and uh and now I’m forgetting the question


because I got on another soapbox about that but uh no yeah Mission LED and what uh what are the other things you’re


trying to do other than apparel yes so um so apparel has kind of it’s still important it’ll we’re gonna we’re going


to be doing monthly drops that are tied to they’ll be collect collections that


are tied to somebody’s story um and we’re going to design it based off of what we talk about with them yeah


and we’re going to create that into a line where depending on the season um it will have either a hat or a


wristband or it’ll have shorts if they are like a fitness person or yeah that’s


cool a t-shirt or a tank top or socks shoes whatever it may be


um it’s going to be something tied to their story and heavily focused on story because we want to be


story brand because that’s what that’s what I think affects people the most is hearing stories and that’s how we learn


best is by stories so um


so apparel is foundational but uh where we’re seeing uh the most uh men that we can reach and


the most impact is on this app that we’ve created


um where originally it was going to be a place where we could gather to


um have these weekly calls with coaches where we could expose them to resources


and it is absolutely grown into a mini social media Network for men with


different channels you know it’s kind of like a slack or maybe Discord where it’s you know you have a bunch of different uh


different channels where one is like The Daily Grind where you talk about things that maybe you’re struggling with or


things that you’re that you need advice on um they’ve got daily wins because we want to lead with gratitude because I


think that’s a big it’s a positive Reddit yeah sure let’s call it that


um but it’s cool because you can post intro you post intro videos um and what we’ve seen since we launched


about a month ago the app just for beta testing is the community there is amazing


um you’ve got people you’ve got guys sharing things that I just they’re like I don’t feel I can share this on LinkedIn or any of my social media but I


feel like I can share this here and the community there is just awesome it blows my mind do you have any Anonymous areas


where people can go in and like share the things that they struggle with we’ve talked about that we we haven’t


Incorporated that yet I do think that that will be import important however I didn’t think there’s power in


um I do think there’s power in giving putting a face behind those


struggles getting uncomfortable yes and that’s and that’s where I think we want to lead with accountability too is


um there’s no way we can help you if you do it anonymously and and I’m not saying


that we’re you know poo pooing on that idea I think there’s value there and there could be moments where it might be


necessary um but that’s kind of where it stands right now but yeah no that makes sense I


mean even we go back and forth I go back and forth but even addicts that go through like addiction recovery for


example they’re taught to like identify themselves their whole life as an addict yeah right publicly so if you go to work


you say I’m an addict so I don’t drink even though you haven’t had a drink in 20 years you might still say that so I


think that accountability of like for sure this is who I am do I have permission to make you uncomfortable


right that’d actually be cool you go to log into the app for the first time and you said do we have permission to make you uncomfortable I kind of like that


that’s your new signing now just put advice it’s all yours


sponsored I like that well so okay you bring up a good point that I um have


failed to mention but one of the things that we do um that I think is really important and


and cool a cool aspect to the community is is that we make everybody sign an


oath um when they get to the web page like they can’t even see the apparel they can’t join the app


um unless they sign this oath it’s not like you’re like uh giving you’re selling yourself but it’s it but but


it’s a it’s an important aspect I think to Brotherhood yeah it is and and what it you know summed up it’s saying I vow


to be My Brother’s Keeper um I will be I will be a watchful guard you know some of it is really flowery


and and beautiful and I give props to Justin Bray who who tattooed it on his arms


speaking of saying hey I’m gonna take this and run with it more than I’m telling you he’s another animal he


tattooed the whole thing on his entire believable he’s he’s got a devotion like I’ve never


seen yeah um and so the oath uh we feel really strongly like that’s a good indicator of


if you’re willing to commit to this community and you’re willing to help each other out and it’s it’s something that is


should be innate and should be obvious yeah but I think there’s power in um taking something obvious and


signing your name to it uh because we don’t do that with most things like we think about it and you know we over


the years develop habits of things that we know we should be doing and it just becomes a habit but when you sign


something saying I am going to be committed to this uh even though it may


be obvious uh that to take care of each other um it’s powerful it’s another level of


commitment and I think I think there is like another another study that we can pull up or something I know there’s something


out there that shows like when when you do think it write it say it it actually


changes your brain chemistry and it becomes a legitimate commitment yeah you


know it’s a lot easier to remember to recall and to keep concept to speak your


goals write your goals yes yeah exactly for sure um I love that and and that’s and that


uh you know I love uh the words that Justin felt inspired to write and I


think it’s a really powerful oath um and uh I really think if if we can get as many


guys to sign that we’ve got over a thousand now right yeah yeah we hit a thousand which was exciting but uh


I think that’s I think that’s really sure we want people to to buy the apparel we want people to join the app


but if we can get people to sign that oath I think that’s really powerful yeah um not only because part of it is that


I’ll take I’ll take care of my brothers I’ll take care of those that are in need but it’s also saying I will reach out


when I am in need um so it’s it’s both it’s it’s uh I will I will be helped and I will help yeah


um and I think that’s a powerful commitment that you’re making to the community and to each other um so anyway uh that uh that’s an


exciting part of of what we’re doing but the the app um is growing really quickly


and we’re still in beta testing we’re testing a few things out but we recently started doing something called here talks where we have uh we’ve had some


coaches come on and they give you know a 30 40 minute uh basically Ted talk but


we call them here hot here talks uh to our community on the app um and that’s been amazing to see uh to


see that interaction and because what we want our community to be is a


place where you can come as you are and know that you’re loved but also with an understanding that


um don’t you can’t stay the way that you are if you stay the way that you are you’re going to continue in this in the


struggles that you’re having so you have to change something and what we want to do is provide the resources for people


so that um so that something can resonate with them so that they can take care of their mental health for some people it’s it’s


a cold plunge for others it’s therapy for other people it’s nutrition um and it’s they need a dietitian they


need horseback riding uh they need there’s nature therapy there’s so many


resources and not not everything is going to work for everybody and so I think exposure to those resources and to


those different uh coaches into those different things is where we want to


play a big role in helping men to overcome and helping men to to step into


who they want to become um and overcoming those challenges and uh and that’s where I feel that’s


where I feel like so strongly where I feel so passionately is uh yeah is helping men to overcome


that because I’ve I’ve been helped by other men and I’ve I’ve been given permission by other people who share


online who um who share their soul who share their struggles and I’m forever in their debt


for giving me permission to do that um and so I want to repay that and help other people to do that while I figure


my own stuff out yeah for sure yeah it’s always a journey like it’s like it’s never I think the the thing to realize


it’s never going to be perfect it’s in it’s like and physically impossible to


give 100 to everything all the time like eventually you will burn out or you will have you know you will come to a


realization that I can’t do everything 100 of the time but it’s it’s a journey


to balance it’s a journey to better mental health and it’s something that is


a lifetime goal you know it’s something that um you’ve got to do every single day and


you need to make that commitment in order to you know be better Yeah we actually had a conversation with one of


our employees yesterday in a one-on-one we call them one-on-ones although Dan and I both go two a month


um they get the point they get the point um but she was saying you know she’s had


a lot of things going on in life right now and good things really good things and she said I just feel like work’s


kind of been on the back burner and I’m like she’s really nice how crazy is that first of all props to us no offense that


we can have employees trust this enough to come to us and just say that first it’s been a little bit on the back burner but that’s powerful it really is


our response was kind of like you know what June summer hits I love the


outdoors I love being outside like work’s been a little bit on the back burner for me too like yeah I not


fulfilling for our current customers but more our growth strategy it’s like we’ve been maybe all slacking off a little bit


in the growth category because you do need those breaks we’re going really hard so to take a little bit of a step


back and say we’re going to move a little slower and recover a little bit so that we can go really hard again like


I don’t know why we can’t wrap our heads around the fact that our brain is part of our body and our so I always say like


mental health and physical health are the same thing because your brain’s part of your body it’s physical health they all affect each other yeah so I just


think it’s very interesting that we we promote this concept of work work work


work work never give up keep going great grind but your brain is part of your body you would never say that about your


legs you’d never say that about you know you’d never say unless you want to run a 100 mile race that’s right


leg day yeah you need recovery yes yes you do need recovery it’s actually you’re gonna get


stronger with more recovery and I think it’s just interesting that we don’t


focus on that with our Mental Health it’s funny you say that that that is


something that I think um I recently watched a TED Talk That was very impactful for me I can’t


remember who it was or what it’s called show notes yeah uh look for it after yeah lots of those of this episode


um but he talks about getting to the point where mental health becomes


just as habitual yeah and just as important as brushing our teeth 100 years ago people didn’t brush their


teeth yeah 100 years ago they didn’t shower they didn’t do a lot of things that uh that are hygienically essential


these days um because they didn’t realize how much the lack of it affected them until they


finally had the technology to take a shower or a bath more often or to brush their teeth or have running water


whatever yeah and all of a sudden they could they it developed into this habit and I


think I think we’re at a cultural moment where we’re realizing especially post


covid how much we need each other for our mental health how much we need these resources and um how mental health isn’t


isn’t just something that you will focus on for a little bit it’s just like our physical health like you’re saying


um we have to give just as much importance if not more to our mental health to our brain to our mental mental


Fitness as much as physical health and physical fitness um I think there’s I think part of the


the word games that we play with within mental health are um mental health is a lot of times


synonymous with mental illness when they are not the same mental illness is a


part of Mental Health but mental health you hopefully we can get to a point where we’re mental


healthy mentally health mentally healthy however you say it yeah where we have a mental Fitness and instead of talking


about mental health like it’s this like icky thing this icky thing um so that’s part of what I’m trying


what I would love to change is the way that we talk about it and there’s people that are like oh that


sounds like political correctness no people change language all the time for Better or For Worse but the the way that


we talk about things and the language that we use around certain things can change cultures and history and I think


if we can change that conversation of what is mental health


um and and talk about it in a positive light and it’s something that everybody deals with not everybody deals with


mental health issues yeah some people deal with it all the time but both are mental health and everybody


deals with it that yes like not everybody does mental health issues necessarily or like have deep depression


or uh or add or all these things but there is a mental health is a part of


every human being yeah we all have a brain yes we all have thoughts we all think we all you know we all act yeah so


well and recently I saw a post of like there have been a few times where somebody posts something and says I’m so


sick of the mental health talk or this is so Buzzy and trendy and it’s like this isn’t going anywhere this is just


the beginning um the mental health talk we’re like that’s how you mentally feel about it


yeah right can I help you yeah are you okay exactly well and I think like our Our


Generations definitely turn to the tide I think from Gen X and Boomers that were


so you know just maybe oblivious didn’t want to talk about it and now I think


we’re seeing what gen Z hopefully yes a little a lot a lot more of a change and


a lot more openness a lot more okay talking about these things so and all it takes is a generation it really does all


it takes is a single generation to change it for everything this is the chosen generation yeah every generation yeah


you know the chosen generation element um well and just going back going to


that as well as a bit of our past discussion one of the things um that Justin and I have been talking


about recently is um because sometimes we feel like a fraud because our mental health is


struggling sometimes um when we stay up uh three nights in a


row till three a.m 4 a.m Justin uh and I do this sometimes especially when we’re


on a deadline or when we are you know when we launched in May um we came to this realization


especially because it was affecting our families it was affecting us um we came to the we we came to the


agreement that we are going to do this right and we are going to build this right we are not go there’s no man there is no


movement there is no community that is more important for us to build than the


community of our family yeah and the time that we spend there nobody is more important than that than them and that


might seem harsh especially dealing with a community that sometimes can deal with suicide and I’m not saying that that’s


less important but I am saying that uh we yes there will be sacrifices um yes


there will be late nights but when that becomes the norm like is celebrated in a lot of hustle culture


yes that is where I think if we aren’t examples of good mental health


how can we preach it to other people and so we’re trying to be ready to do it how


can you be ready to do it when you’re not prepared yourself right exactly it’s like you know some you know 500 pound


man who’s like pretending to be a physical trainer yeah um that sounded


really harsh you know what I mean like it it could be teaching sumo wrestlers right


that’s valid um but if they’re trying to teach you how to how to lose weight you know it


might not have as much value as yeah as somebody who’s fit obviously yeah


um and I think that’s what we’re really trying to move towards is as we’re as we’re building the foundation for this


for this company as we’re building the bylaws and the the culture


um we’ve decided we’re gonna do this as best as we can we’re gonna make sure our families and our wives are proud of what


we’re building instead of mad at us for being gone all the time we’re gonna we’re gonna build a culture that is


centered around mental Wellness um for our employees for us uh because it’s


it’s that important and I’ve tried to do it other ways I’ve been in cultures where it was not healthy


uh and others which that were and uh and I think the only way to do it is to do


it to the best of our abilities as right as we possibly can for sure I love that what what’s the I guess what’s the


future for here like what what are you and Justin for sues if you should see you’ve added some people to your board


you’ve got this app you’re coming out with you’ve got apparel like what what does the future look like for you guys


how many Oaths in the next year oh boy I don’t know I I could see


we this has all been organic so far we haven’t put any ads into it which is goes against Justin’s nature I was gonna


say I know some people who can help but incredible really good at that he’s so good he got


a secret weapon we really do um we’ve we’ve brought on a few other people you know we have Mike Allen who


is a retreat he’s been doing men’s Retreats for a while and he’s um been in this work for a while uh he


we brought him on as a Founder he was there from the beginning it just took him a while to as he should have it’s a


big commitment um uh to come on and so he’s a founder and then we have a few others that are


probably going to be Founders as well uh soon okay wait I’m really honored and


excited I was waiting to tell you until now


um surprise uh uh but we’re building a team that uh I I


really I don’t want to be one of those people that’s like looks at it and is like we’re gonna do amazing things but


yeah but I I have said what are the dreams


and and a big part of it is the community and the movement that we’ve seen of just the incredible amount of


men we get hundreds of messages yeah from from guys


people are hungry men are hungry for this spouses of men and and family


members of men yeah are starving for this this type of a community where their men can learn how to be strong men


and capable and accountable but also share their struggles and where it’s welcomed and celebrated


and I think um I really see this going global we we uh I I checked yesterday


our our statistic our our analytics and our demographics so far on the app and there were like


15 countries outside of the US that we didn’t even we weren’t even aware that they were there because yeah yeah not


everybody publicly puts their location but you know we can see it on the beach on the IP yeah yeah um and uh you know


that was for me I I see that as a start to a global Brotherhood


um and and even this social media app growing in a in a huge way yeah


um where we actually call it so we call it support media and that’s by one of our partners Jeff Reagan


uh he coined it for us of support media because social media has a stigma of like you know it’s very against mental


health and so if we’re trying to do this right in fact you can see it correlates yeah literally with the rise of social


media yes the rise of mental unless the rise of 2008. oh totally it’s very correlated on the chart on the ground


social contagions you name it yeah so that’s what that’s okay wow sorry I’ve no dude this is


awesome we love it no that’s all right that way they can really understand what it’s all about like in


American size powerful way as well as yeah we can do that sure we’ll do that


at the end sweet yeah yeah love that where were we um you’re just talking about the Visions for the future


of here and we were just talking about all the different men in different countries oh yes


um so I really see this I really see this going global it already is


um but uh I see it growing really fast once we use Justin’s expertise and get


this targeted to the right man to the right people all around the world I see


it really uh really blowing up uh and just because of the organic interactions


that we’ve had so far and I think it’ll be different putting ads out there because there’s not that Personal Touch of where they’re reading Justin’s story


or my story or somebody else’s story um but uh but I think it will have a


powerful impact because people yeah because men are hungry for it um there’s no reason why you can’t


uh do the stories and paid too yeah it’s true yeah


that’s probably what would work the best for you guys yeah yeah I think so too I think that usually is what resonates


with people right um oh I remember what I was gonna say was uh you know our partner Jeff Reagan


he’s out of San Diego he’s one of the many who’ve reached out to us and said I would love to help like


I feel like this is my thing uh it could be my thing I am it was kind of a Justin


moment where he was so passionate about it even more so than it felt like me at the moment yeah and he came in with this


fresh courage and this fresh um this fresh excitement for it that


hasn’t died down by the way um in the last couple of months and uh he talked about it as we need to call


this support media um yes it’s social media in the if it were in a category but it’s social


support media part social but it’s for support it’s to encourage positive


uh interactions on social media yeah votes only that’s right yeah it’s up


votes only yeah exactly positives exactly um so that’s a big part that I see


really growing in a huge way we also do events we do Retreats we’ve done breath work and cold plunges


lunches uh we we’re gonna do hikes we’re going to do uh Retreats we’re gonna do


I’ve already said Retreats but we’re gonna do a lot of different things with events where we just gather that’s


that’s where the power I think is is for sure in person Gatherings


um we had our first thing in in San Diego uh last month we have guys in


Texas and in Cal and California Arizona


uh some on the east coast and in the South who want to organize events we’re


looking at that uh because we see this being like having chapters throughout


the country and hopefully the world um I don’t know how much to share but we I see almost a franchise model of uh


men’s wellness centers um that are it’s a place where you have a bunch of different resources including


like uh there’s a fitness aspect there’s a mental Fitness aspect there’s there’s


um cold therapy there’s a cold you know cold plunge there’s uh there’s a there’s


a sauna steam room there’s a Salt Cave there’s a flex space for breath work and


yoga and exercise so a very whole approach to to what we’re trying to do


but also resources to therapists and so I see I see that in the future


um and being able to franchise that out I see um I see a big conference and I may I


shouldn’t say this because then somebody’s gonna steal it but uh I haven’t seen I haven’t seen a conference


there’s lots of like churches that put on conferences like supporting men and all that but there’s not like a main


conference and I can see people like I want to bring all different A diversity of thought to Salt Lake City yeah almost


like this Congress of man like uh where where all these different perspectives come and talk about masculinity they


talk about men’s mental health they talk about Brotherhood all these things and the people can come and take what they


want from it because there’s no definition really yeah uh uh especially


culturally I think it I think it’s a big part up to what what you your experience


has been with masculinity and with mental health and so I could see you know a garyvee a Tony Robbins yeah um


church leaders from many churches and religious leaders I see Fitness Experts


I see a bunch of men coming together in one place to talk about this and to


figure this out together and how we can help and support each other in our communities so it’s not such like a at


your throat kind of thing there’s so many different communities that are at each other’s throats and I think it doesn’t have to be that way no


fraternity yes yeah so that that’s really um that’s where I see it there’s a few


other things that I that uh are really exciting there’s there’s the non-profit


aspect to it as well yeah um that we are working towards


um I would like to I would like to provide Retreats I would like to provide a lot of


um different resources to men that cannot afford it yeah or no cost yeah no


cost or low cost um yeah because that was part of why we


started this which that accessibility Gap um that lack of access to these tools


and um again not trying to get political or go against any of the movement that’s already happened good on all of the


men’s movements and groups but when I look on Instagram when I look on


social media and I see all these men’s groups one thing that is very obvious to me


is that it is a group full of usually uh wealthier middle class or wealthy


white men and so I’ve I’ve noticed that I haven’t seen very much diversity of culture uh


diversity of different life experiences and I would love to see more people of


color I would love to see more more communities that that might not have as


as good of access to this these kind of communities um I would love to see that


and I and I get that she was talking about it because I feel so strongly like we have to include as many people as we


can yeah and some will be able to afford it and some won’t and so I’d love to provide those opportunities


for men who historically um don’t have as great of an opportunity


for sure as as others based because of where they were born or because of or


their or their Community themselves yes yeah whether it’s uh that they were


where they were born or the community that they’ve chosen and gotten into that might not be might not be good for them


um and so that’s what I would love to provide so there’s there’s the non-profit part as well that uh that I’m


really stoked to start seeing because I think a lot of people are passionate and I think we can change so many men’s


lives Yeah by giving them access to to these resources totally and uh yeah I’ll get off my soapbox now no


not at all I I’m curious what’s so we talked about the oath what is the elf do


you mind reciting the oath for us yeah let me um all right um so here’s the oath I’m


gonna read it probably really dramatically but um so here oath I vow to be My Brother’s


Keeper a silent watchful guardian over those in darkness a listening ear to


those in pain a provider for those in need a leader to those lost and a hand to those in deep


Waters I am a son father and brother to those who need me I will uphold the duties and


responsibilities bestowed upon me through any obstacle or trial I will be


there for my brothers in need I will leave No Man Behind in the darkness or to be left alone or afraid


our love and dedication goes beyond color belief culture status status


nationality and blood we cannot and will not be divided in my times of need I


will reach out I will talk and I will remember those who need and love me I


will remember that I am loved I will never forget my brothers who are there for me I am here to hear this is my


promise this is my responsibility my oath this is my here Brotherhood


um and then on the site uh at the at the end there’s uh the


camera won’t be able to see it but there’s a place for you to sign it and then it saved to your account and so you


can reshare it but it’s there with your signature as like a PDF for you


um so that’s the oath that’s amazing I love that and I think it covers every


aspect of what we talked about today and one your your journey your own


commitment your transformation the last several years I’m excited to sign it so


men listening to this go sign it yeah pick something up from here uh and


obviously reach out to to John John where can people find you online yeah LinkedIn is where I am mostly where I’m


also on others all the other social media sites but I’m most active on


on LinkedIn and it’s j-o-h-n-m-o-o-r-e correct right yep okay uh so you you can reach us there uh you


can like our page uh and follow along on on LinkedIn also on Instagram where it’s


here Brotherhood and just an important thing if you’re listening it’s it’s spelled h e a r e


um yeah what’s the purpose for that yeah so uh it talking to one of my friends he he it


kind of came up in conversation of like here here like using that at some point because I was looking at a different


name for a while and then he brought that up and I’m like there’s something there I don’t like here here uh but it’s


but uh but there is something to that too because that’s I mean colloquially


yeah and throughout history has been a very manly yes brace that in a


camaraderie phrase exactly um and that’s where my when my friend brought it up he said because because I told him


originally I want to bring humor into this not that there’s anything humorous around suicide or


Suicide Prevention however to appeal to men we need to have a different conversation than than like these


depressing videos all the time like let’s let’s bring some Humanity to this and and make it approachable I guess


yeah and so you call the arms too yeah and he and he and his suggestion was here here like bring in some like of


that some of that British uh yeah stuff and you know in in uh what is it


called not Congress um the oh gosh I also representative in Britain uh oh the


parliament Parliament thank you okay in Parliament that’s that’s what they used to do in their white wigs yes that was their sign of support it was yeah here


like I agree with you I’m here with you um and uh but then we thought oh what if


we did what about here here like here I’m


hearing I’m hearing here yeah and then we thought oh what if we combined the


spellings so you’ve got oh I’m not wearing the shirt I should be um but it’s uh it’s both spelling of the


word and that’s kind of our catchphrase which is I am here to hear I’m here to listen I’m here to but also I’m here I’m


present yeah um I am I am here in the moment and


yeah so that’s where it comes from I love it awesome well cool well John thanks so much for the conversation


today like thank you one of my personal favorite conversations that we’ve had and thank you for sharing your story and


thank you for changing the world in the way that you are right now so well I I


appreciate that and thank you for for letting me be on I’m I’m grateful for for any opportunity to uh


to just uh talk and to share what we’re doing and uh so good on you guys for


what you’re doing I was I was super excited uh to be invited on to this because I I look up to you guys and


respect you for what you guys are doing so I will we appreciate it we are the number one podcast in the world


no thanks for being here someday someday someday why not forget Joe Rogan seriously that’s all right anyway thanks


for being here John really appreciate it that’s girl sessions for today


this is foreign [Music]


me yeah

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