Levi Lindsey on Mental Health, Entrepreneurship, and the Future of Marketing – Scroll Sessions

Once upon a time, I found immense satisfaction in the simple act of fixing windshields. It was a period marked by freedom and the absence of heavy responsibilities, such as providing for a family. This simplicity brought me happiness I hadn’t known before. The joy derived from such straightforward, hands-on work may seem puzzling to some, but it underscored a fundamental truth about happiness and fulfillment: sometimes, they’re found in the most unexpected places.

However, as life unfolded, the pressure to provide and the allure of entrepreneurship led me down a new path. Transitioning from the clear-cut tasks of windshield repair to navigating the complex waters of starting and running a business was a dramatic shift. My journey into entrepreneurship began with “Vid Army,” a venture born from a partnership formed in church and the necessity to carve out a livelihood post-college.

The early days of Vid Army were challenging. Living in my parents’ basement and grappling with the uncertainties of a new business, I relied heavily on my wife’s income as a nurse. This period was marked by hard work, minimal financial takeaways, and a steep learning curve. It was an endeavor that tested my resolve, taught me invaluable lessons about business, and forced me to confront my limitations and strengths.

One of the most crucial lessons learned was the importance of clear agreements and understanding among business partners. The absence of an operating agreement led to conflicts and misunderstandings, ultimately contributing to my exit from Vid Army. This experience highlighted the vital need for transparent communication, proper planning, and the setting of mutual expectations right from the start.

In retrospect, my entrepreneurial journey, with all its ups and downs, was a transformative experience. It wasn’t just about the business itself but also about personal growth, understanding the value of resilience, and learning to detach my self-worth from the success or failure of my ventures. This chapter of my life taught me to appreciate the journey, regardless of the outcome, and to understand that every experience, no matter how challenging, contributes to our growth and development.

As I move forward, the lessons learned from fixing windshields to starting a business remain a guiding light. They remind me of the importance of finding joy in simplicity, the necessity of clear agreements in partnerships, and the value of resilience in the face of adversity. In entrepreneurship, as in life, it’s not just about reaching the destination but also about the growth, insights, and relationships we build along the way.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/levilindsay/

https://www.shyftglobal.com/

Podcast Transcript

welcome Levi we’re excited to have you on the podcast welcome Levi Lindsay the

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Utah LinkedIn influencer extraordinaire oh

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I will say uh welcome to scroll sessions my name is still Shane I’m Dan uh and

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today we have Levi Lindsey Levi tell us who you are real quick

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just a just a kid trying to navigate my way through this life well

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Levi’s got a pretty impressive resume um I think it all starts with

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you’re an entrepreneur yep you ran a seven a failure preneur no failed

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tripping a failure I don’t know about that you got out before it failed it was

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definitely like Indiana Jones fighting under the stone wall and then he just

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grabs his hat right before he reaches out tell me how Indiana Jones ends

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we’ll find out there’s another one coming that’s true but uh so you started

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out as an entrepreneur before you were an entrepreneur though I actually don’t know this oh what were you doing before

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that Army dude I fixed windshields for 10 years you did tell us about this yeah you ran

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this little bit well not little business but you ran another business yeah you ran a small to medium-sized but you made

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one thousand dollars profit a month that’s what you’re doing when you start a vid Army yeah really

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yeah were you going to school did you finish school I did I went to Weber I got the

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professional sales degree We’re not gonna make fun of that degree we’re just gonna kind of make fun of

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that degree just slightly just a little bit it’s it’s yeah you don’t need it just

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Weaver it was just a piece of paper yeah just go sell just go sell yeah yeah sure

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go do Dojo with uh Jaren Erickson yeah she was also one of our clients actually oh is he really yeah yeah so Shameless

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plug are you guys running his ads on Tick Tock right now yes I got targeted and then I ran into his dad that night

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and I was like dude I saw Jaren on Tick Tock oh that’s epic that means that it’s working yeah I didn’t I didn’t convert

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yeah but you’re also not ideal audience we’re still working on middle of funnel you’ll be there soon so you guys are good at targeting the wrong audience

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hey hey they just wanted to hit people in Utah so you know no you got them yeah

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good it had good engagement though it did yeah I had a great engagement no I know he’s about due for new creative

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though um cool so you were running a windshield repair business on your own billing

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people’s insurances or I had a partner uh I started out as his employee it’s

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like one of my first viral post ever is my story about when I had hair down on my shoulders all right and then he uh

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laughed me out of the of the building when I asked him for a job and then I cut my hair came back the next day so

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anyway crap I guess I have to hire you and then I worked with them for 10 years from like 16 to

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even after my admission it was yeah all the way till like 25. are you doing were

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you replacing wind chills or just doing like rock chip repair just like we’d post up at Nate Wade Subaru or like uh

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Larry H Miller Dodge or like a couple car washes we had I think like 10 guys

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at our Peak uh and uh I shouldn’t say guys because

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we had gals too but uh yeah we’d go in to the lobby and be like hey you have a

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rock chip uh your insurance would cover it for free call the insurance and then like would I’d be on the phone with the

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insurance fixing the Rock Chip and then I’d go hand the phone to the customer have them sign it run back uh put the uh

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injection in and then go run back I don’t know I could do that for 10 years I think about it and like that was

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I was like my happiest I’ve ever been was just fixing windshields why do you think that is I think just because I

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didn’t have the pressure of providing for a family so I just didn’t that’s definitely a pressure for sure if I made money you’re

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just having fun it says drilling holes in windshields yeah filling them up to

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be honest I’ve never drilled a hole in a windshield and that sounds kind of like it would be euphoric it’s the same drill

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bit they use for your cavities really that don’t like we get them from dental offices to cut glass and stuff so

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sometimes I’d like picture I was drilling into a tooth and it’d give me the ick yeah yeah I couldn’t do a

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specialized glass not just like normal glass so well that’s awesome um so you did windshields yeah and then

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you started vid Army um give us a little bit of insight into how that happened because obviously you

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weren’t a videographer necessarily no Johnny was we met through church uh I

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was living we were living in my parents basement uh when we graduated college you and your wife my wife and I yeah so

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you were starting to provide and yeah kind of yeah not really giving it your best shot because then we Johnny’s

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already kind of doing it he had a couple clients under the like 500 a month model

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uh and then my wife was pregnant we just graduated to living in my parents basement met Johnny

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uh and I can’t say it provided because my wife went and worked at Primary Children’s

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full-time as a nurse like she she worked all the way up till the day before she

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gave birth to her first oh my god wow so I wouldn’t have been able to do vid Army because Johnny was doing uh real estate

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videos full-time and I did uh I was full-time in vid Army for the first year

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not making anything or yeah I didn’t you weren’t really taking much out I think it took like 1200 bucks out that

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December or something wow or and then maybe a couple other times but so you were just building the business to start

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with your professional sales degree and your experience in the windshield space and I I hate sales yeah but it

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just had the least amount of math because I I hate math more than I hate sales yeah I you know what I get the

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same way before I dropped out math was what helped me back I I thought I’m

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gonna go into marketing or I’m gonna go into sales because I suck at math and I

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know all I have to do is math 10 50 or whatever yeah just so funny because I’m like like with how and what without

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analytical I think you are it’s funny to me that like you feel like Math’s a hard thing for you yeah I love it do you have

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ADHD yes so you just don’t diagnosed I’m not just making that up you don’t like things you’re not interested in that’s

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true and so you probably just you like things you’re not interested in no no I have ADHD not diagnosed self-proclaimed

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ADHD self-diagnosed I think people could watch this

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conversation back and diagnose me I’m sure be like yeah they just went from windshields back to school yeah but you

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don’t like things you’re interested you’re not interested in and so I that’s why I always struggled in schools because if I wasn’t interested in it

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then I just could not do this on it yeah because if if I’m into something I will

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I will give it my undivided attention and I will like crush it okay so talking

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about vet Army and getting it going then you I think a good lesson to learn is the fact

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that a lot of people and we talked about this recently on another episode but entrepreneurship have you read the book

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The e-myth or are you familiar with the myth so that book changed my life when I was in school and was actually a big

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reason why I dropped out because it talks about the entrepreneurial myth of

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how it seems like people just dive in seems it seems like it’s easy yeah I

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have this idea I’m gonna dive in put my whole life savings in it risk everything when really the best entrepreneurs are

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risk averse and I guess speak to that a little bit because with bit Army it sounds like uh you had started this

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business you weren’t getting paid but your wife was making money so how long did you have did you and your wife have

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a conversation where you said hey I’m gonna go this long trying to build this uh what was that like uh We’ve thought

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about it a ton because my wife is uh very risk adverse uh that’s how she grew

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up uh I I don’t necessarily know if it was her upbringing as much as it is her personality is just very

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she’s more safe and steady um and she just hated that I wouldn’t

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just go get a regular job and I’d just be like babe I just feel it in my guts like I want to be an entrepreneur so bad

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yeah and she it really caused a lot of arguments the first of our marriage how

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did how do you navigate that because I think most entrepreneurs for them for the most

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part deal with that at some point with their spouse so like how do you feel like it’s better now or you feel like

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you still have stuff Have You gone through that I mean it’s all better

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now since my check clears every two weeks yeah I was gonna say you’re back into kind of the steady job right now

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and and in hindsight like I think she can see that vid are I would not be where I’m at I wouldn’t be able to have

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a healthy income for our family right now if it wasn’t for good army yeah like

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I tell people that was my Master’s Degree yeah like I I wouldn’t I would

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have had to get a Masters or do a business probably to get where I’m at right yeah yeah I I totally agree

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because to speak on bit Army I will say you guys blew up this model and explain what the

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model was at bit Army and what you guys were doing we would we’d film for an hour

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um we’d send a a crew of two with a couple of Lights two cameras

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um a couple tripods and some microphones and so uh we did mostly like talking

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head videos or like hype videos um or like a combination of the two

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where you’d you’d be talking head and then we’d show b-roll they call it during the video

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um so that like if you’re talking about your candle company you’d show a shot of your candle while you’re talking like

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that was really our bread and butter uh so we’d shoot for an hour and we’d get like all the talking head stuff done in

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the first like 40 minutes and then get all the b-roll done in the last 20 minutes and then we could chop that up

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into usually like three or four videos and you’re 500 bucks I was gonna say you’re doing it for 500 bucks and that

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was the that was kind of the kicker with your guys’s software yeah and uh you had

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a Gorilla Marketing approach I feel like to it I I mean you are the reason

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in my eyes you are the reason that that army was so well known and got this

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opportunity and gave you so many opportunities posted that Army because everyone saw what you were doing on

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LinkedIn and thought everyone’s working with that Army they’re huge yeah they you guys you made

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it look so much bigger yeah you guys made it look like pretty put together yeah you popped that it was like the

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hood it looked like a Ferrari and then you pop open the hood and it’s a 1992 uh Honda Accord engine yeah or a Model T or

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a Model T however you’re good at not letting people pop the hood open yeah but and I to go back I it was not I was

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not the primary reason people knew about us like we all grinded as owners and and

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like Nick staggy coming on board really helped add Fire To The Flame yeah and I mean I I guess I just had only really

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seen you because I guess I had followed no it was all me yeah this is all Levi

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but then so YouTube submar I mean it was all mean yeah okay yeah yeah now that’ll look back

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just kidding and to be like totally Frank infamously imploded in Utah and

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like I guess what do you feel like was the main cause of that and what caused you

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to then leave and kind of take a different path so uh

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I don’t I’ve never like candidly talked about it so we’ll see how this goes You

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Don’t Have To You Don’t Have To no I think it’s I think people are curious I um Johnny

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Johnny wanted to spend more time with his family um I

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didn’t agree with that because um I had spent a lot of time away from

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my family um and put a lot into the business and

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we kind of kept fighting over who contributed more and I was really immature in my response to Johnny like

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wanting to spend more time with the family because I was so stressed like and not making much money because all

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the money was always going back into the business um so I just it it really stressed me

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out and I didn’t know what to do and I was a young entrepreneur right young in the corporate world in general and so my

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responses were just very immature um and a really good learning experience

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like I was not able to take emotion out of it and so Johnny and I just really started butting heads and disagreeing

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over like how much time I think he wanted me to say and I don’t want to speak for him

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but I feel like he wanted me to say like yeah go spend all the time you need with your family we’ll take care of things

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like don’t worry we’ll make sure you guys have the money you need but the money just wasn’t there to do that and I

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wasn’t in a good headspace to like write a message back to him and say like go spend the time that you need with your family

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um and so I think things just started getting misconstrued and then pretty soon we started talking through lawyers like pretty quick after that yeah yeah

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trying to make it work which makes things super hard and and then we didn’t have an operating agreement and so then

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it was just like then it was us fighting over emotion and not like what the business was just at

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the end of the day worth yeah and then we wanted to buy him out he wanted to buy us out and then at the end of the

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day he ended up with the company well I think that after a year of struggling that’s way more common in business Than

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People realize right uh We’ve bought out a partner in the past and and moved on

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and he’s a great person I just went to lunch for them recently uh and

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people have differences people will disagree and there is no right or wrong unless you’re being unethical but there

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is no right or wrong it’s just a matter of we see things differently it’s time for us to move on but an operating

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agreement in business is so important because it sets that standard up front of here’s what you’re

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going to do here’s what I’m going to do here’s what we’re dedicating ourselves to um and protects everybody both in the long

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run agreements prevent disagreements I think you told me that yeah I think I did you probably did I love you know I

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think it was like Adam Legion by the way quoted that on our last episode but I took full credit no I love that and

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someone else told me you can because it wasn’t mine uh

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someone else told me that like once you get things in writing then you can trust

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people completely yeah um but it’s so common in business to be

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like this person would never like we’ll never disagree or this person will never screw me over or like this will never

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blow back on me like uh you never know until it happens yeah so what was the

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biggest I guess what was the biggest lesson for you after exiting vid Army what do you

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feel like you’ve learned the most from that exit and from moving forward

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um I I think no matter what anyone thinks or says or feels get it in writing get an operating agreement right

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from the get-go try to think of worst case scenarios and get them in the agreement

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um I also think the biggest thing I learned is don’t get so attached to

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outcomes um that’s why I really struggled when vid Army shut down as I was so attached

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to the outcome of success of vid Army for so long and I felt like

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if vid Army wasn’t successful then all that time was a waste I can look back now and see that it really wasn’t

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because I built a LinkedIn Network and you learned and you learned more than you ever could of doing just a normal

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job yeah I learned a crap ton about what I’m good at what I’m not good at but at the time I thought like oh that was all

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for nothing and I burned myself out and so that’s when shortly after I started

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having suicidal thoughts and attempted suicide is because I was just like even if I could wrap my mind around the

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fact that it was over and it was going to be fine uh I I think I had just trained my body

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and my mind so hard to focus on that outcome that when it

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didn’t happen my body just did not know like where to put Focus just like gave up yeah so you feel like you’re tying

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your mental health to the outcome of the things that the business you were building yeah for sure do you feel like

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all of your mental health was wrapped up in that at the time like that was just everything to you oh yeah yeah for sure

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that’s why like I don’t know I think about this about this even now like uh you talk to ad buyers and um

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they they’ll tell you that it’s probably hard to when when you don’t have a good day

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uh or a good sales day or you don’t close enough or you don’t convert enough that it’s hard to not tie your mental

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health to to that outcome it comes I think it’s just hard in general like you guys probably have had it in certain

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points in scroll where uh certain certain Milestones aren’t hit or or things don’t go as planned and

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it’s hard to not tie your mental health to it and how did you get how did you get yourself through that do you rely on

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other people did you feel like you pulled yourself out of it how did you get yourself out of that situation

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that’s pretty much rock bottom um yeah it did just take time to recover

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from burnout and kizzic was very was a really great place for me to heal yeah

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um because it’s just a very trusting environment like kizzic was

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really cool because it’s like I don’t care if you’re at the office or or you’re not

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um I mean there’s certainly times where we were all out the office but like most days no one was like hey where are you

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going it’s two o’clock and that was a really good place for me to heal mentally from from burnout how was how

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is vid Army different than that do you feel like you had built a different culture than that no I I think the

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culture was similar but when you when you’re in the thick of it of a business fighting with with your business

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partners and and things are all going to crap like you’re thinking about that at three in the morning and you can’t not

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think about it when it’s your business yeah yeah totally you can’t shut it off it’s a lot harder too for sure yeah I’m

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not gonna lie literally last night I woke up because my dog was like gonna throw up

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or something this is kind of a side tangent but he I wake up at 4am and

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to go and figure out whatever’s going on with my dog nothing happens

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and then I started thinking about work what I had to do for the day and I just grabbed my laptop went on out

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on the couch and thought I’m not gonna fall back asleep and I worked on my own stuff I worked on scroll I worked on you

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know vision boards whatever for the future because when you get so addicted

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it’s addicting and you tie your personal worth and well-being to it sometimes it’s hard to

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it’s hard to not like entangle the confusion of your uh your work and and a hobby yeah like I

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really struggle with con like I think I confuse my body by making it think that work is a hobby

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and I enjoy my work and so I think it’s easy to confuse myself sometimes

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but like you do have to force yourself to have hobby hobbies and enjoy your work and to turn it off yeah and to like

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actually like step back it’s I remember when we you and I had a conversation I think it

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was like the first year or two that we were in business about like it was along

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these lines of like doing work during certain hours it’s like man I have to

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sit back like I have to set boundaries for myself or else I I just know myself like I will just work myself out like

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this whole weekend I put in all new floors in my house and I just just kept going I worked 10 hours basically days

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every single day to get it done I helped him for one hour Shane did come and help but like I totally get that and I feel

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that because I I think and I think a lot of entrepreneurs at least are somewhat

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similar in that regard with like this incessant drive to do it and then when

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you mix poor mental health with that it’s like a recipe for faster eventually

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because eventually it’ll catch up with you yeah yeah so how do you get out obviously kizzic was a good spot for you

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to heal because you felt like you had balance I guess would you describe it as balance yeah and if I think I was

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detached enough especially in the beginning um I mean I got more and more involved

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in kizik but certainly in the beginning when I was new um if kizik didn’t do well that day I

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wasn’t like it wasn’t like oh man I’ve poured my whole heart and soul into because it was like I just got here yeah

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it was like and as far as I can tell like it seems like they’re doing fine financially and and there is growth but

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um it was nice to be in an environment where my mental health wasn’t super tied to outcomes I didn’t have a lot of skin

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in the game yet um and so it was a really good environment to to heal how have you uh

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dealt with pressure since um because pressure

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and tying your Worth to that pressure seems to have been like kind of

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triggering for you yeah is that how have you dealt with pressure as you’ve moved on from because you your careers

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exploded the last couple of years and obviously your mental health seems to be in like a great spot

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yeah but uh yeah it’s a good question it’s the irony is uh

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I I am kind of addicted to the struggle and so like very quickly into kizik I wanted more I wanted I wanted a tidal

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bump like pretty quick I like I wanted uh like I asked for a lot of things and

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and more responsibility and more pressure very quickly and then I went to neighbor and like got what I wanted I

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want I got more pressure uh and The Grass Is Always Greener yes it always

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has and then uh which and it’s uh at shift I’m I’m in uh much more stressful

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position than I was in that in that time post vid Army but uh just trying to keep

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on that balance that flow Zone um like I talked about

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um on Traverse podcast just barely oh yeah what do you mean by slow Zone you should

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pull up the flow Zone yeah in this podcast uh in post but okay um I love the flow zone chart

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where it’s it you know if you’re stretching yourself too much you’re in anxiety if you’re not stretching

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yourself enough you’re in boredom but then there’s that flow Zone where you’re stretching yourself just enough

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um but you’re not like uh wasting potential at the same time it’s

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kind of uh I do a podcast with my friends not a Shameless plug don’t worry

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it’s called the conference room um and we talked about which is this I

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honestly still don’t understand it but uh the principle is similar to a river

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right like if a river is Flowing too quickly it’s very dangerous but if it’s

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not flowing fast enough then you get stagnant water and you know things don’t

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make it to the Great Salt Lake like they’re supposed to um and then it dries up and then the toxins release yeah and then everybody

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dies and that’s why we’re asking you to sign a petition today no um but

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uh a river needs like a needs a good flow in order to be efficient and

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that flow state is really important in our lives and I can feel in my life when

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that’s disrupted like I felt it this morning obviously working for to 6 a.m even if I wasn’t working or

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doing something that wasn’t productive for me that wasn’t worth my time um so how do you continually stay in a

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flow State then or how do you stay in flow do you have certain tactics uh I

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love what um Kurt the Kickstart guy it’s Kurt

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right Kickstart guy like the like as I’m like sure Jamie pull that up I think it’s

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like just kidding I think it’s like Kurt Robert said this let me just like like Kickstart fund like in Utah

25:34

yeah yeah okay yeah and we have yeah it’s Cur okay Kurt Roberts said this one

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time uh out of breakfast that I went to uh which is know thyself and I think that’s a that’s a big part of it because

25:46

I look at shift and like what Alex Burge our CEO does uh and the stuff that he

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he’s just really good at taking emotion out of every situation taking a step back looking at it very objectively

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really good at relationships and outcomes uh there’s things that he can do that I just I know I could not do

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them and so I’m not trying to be a CEO because I just I know I I don’t want to

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be and I yeah I would immediately get into that anxiety Zone

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um I I I’m not great with employees I do need to manage employees but I don’t think I can manage a whole company of

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employees because I such a people pleaser uh and Eric we fired to be less

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agreeable yeah yeah you need to be less agreeable I love where I’ve landed though at shift because I get to

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be on podcasts go to lunches do networking events at Disney like we’re doing next week and I really appreciate

26:46

the invite to Disney by the way oh yeah yeah come on come on I was waiting for the invite for the podcast well now that

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that’s happened I guess we can go to Disney now yeah we should pay our own way we’re like hey guys what’s up what

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you’re here

27:07

Shane you don’t own an e-commerce brand hey your wife does yeah

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Shameless plug man we’re plugging me today um but uh yeah I I love where I’m at

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because I’m I’m stretching myself and my abilities with getting Kano and

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launching that off the ground we’ll probably do another joint venture or archive another business this year

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um and so starting multiple businesses and then being able to use my networking skills and Linkedin and awareness skills

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um content talk about a little I guess for people that are listening what shift Global is

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what you what you guys are about what’s your mission what do you do so shift Global uh everything from designing a

27:54

product and making it uh ready to manufacture and then

28:00

manufacturing it and then getting it here in the US like supply chain product design all of that is what shift does

28:08

okay and then your role give an example of what your role is through like K note

28:13

what you just did so we just acquired Kano kanodog.com uh and so we’re

28:19

building out a product roadmap right now

28:24

plug

28:37

uh so we just acquired Kano uh so right now we’re getting that off the ground uh

28:42

we want to own our own Brands um and uh so we’re we’re looking at

28:48

starting at least one other acquiring one another so I get to do all the marketing for Brands we acquire or start

28:53

then I’m also doing marketing for other clients that we have oh so do you guys

28:58

do marketing yeah for customers yeah so like we’ll do rebrands or or uh content

29:06

um and that’s not something that we like advertise much because we’re not like trying to grow it yeah a ton but if

29:11

clients need help with marketing um we can offer those services and so we’ve done some video production some

29:17

photo shoots stuff like that um but then also using those

29:23

capabilities for our own brands that we’ll start so you’re you’re tied to the success of these products now it’s a big

29:30

part of what your role is for them right yeah yeah actually I kind of it it’s

29:35

like being an entrepreneur without the pressure of having to not take a paycheck or uh it it’s definitely a pretty

29:45

unique situation that I don’t think people many people get the opportunity which is to

29:51

have a full-time job of starting companies and getting paid to do it yeah and getting paid to do it yeah and not

29:57

quite in the VC world yeah because ew because what’s

30:03

cool about shift shift is shift is all bootstrapped yeah Alex Burge and Mark

30:09

Burge started it six years ago and it they haven’t taken a penny from from investors uh and they did 21 million

30:19

last year crazy wow that’s awesome they’re they’re in a cool position where they can they can start to diversify

30:25

their their uh income streams and revenue streams and so yeah uh I

30:31

certainly have to answer to them but it’s nice to not have to answer like big investment groups for now I’m sure we’ll take some on at some point but yeah well

30:38

I think that you are in this awesome spot of being an entrepreneur after being an entrepreneur yeah no kidding

30:45

maybe weigh the pros and cons of Entrepreneurship versus entrepreneurship because I I’m in a position and Dan’s in

30:52

a position where we’re entrepreneurs and we were able to grow our company to the

30:57

point where now we don’t really have to worry about getting a paycheck like we know it’s going to clear every two weeks

31:03

hopefully and uh and we’ve been able to set aside a little bit of money

31:09

um and I will say that that point I mean it took four years to get

31:15

to that point and we went through hell and back over four years to get there but now I almost feel like I’m an

31:22

entrepreneur again and it feels good so uh

31:27

that’s kind of a weird weird way to say it but for you I know

31:33

why this thing that I built is awesome no no but I mean so for me the path of

31:39

Entrepreneurship worked out luckily yeah and I didn’t really have another option because I

31:45

don’t have a degree I it wasn’t overnight it took four years and we worked freaking hard to do it yeah we

31:51

had but um if if this didn’t work I I see the pressure I feel the pressure and

31:59

I know that I only eat what I kill so um to people listening that are

32:04

considering entrepreneurship or entrepreneurship I want to say entrepreneurship can be really Bountiful

32:11

like you can really reap the rewards of it but it’s not for everyone and it

32:17

takes it can have extremes yeah a lot of extreme moments so entrepreneurship why

32:22

has that been so beneficial to you uh what I love about it um and to be clear when you’re the

32:28

entrepreneur you’re the investor or you’re the one like the more risk you take on in business the more reward you

32:35

get if it works out yeah yeah the more failure you get it with the bills exactly and so uh

32:43

entrepreneurship is awesome because I get to I get to Fringe a lot of the risk

32:48

on myself which I think I definitely am a lot I’m trigger shy from my experience

32:54

of Entrepreneurship of like things can fall apart I’m still like I still have to pay off some stuff from vid Army even

33:01

though it really doesn’t make years ago off of that business yeah it’s crazy but that was four years ago at this point

33:07

three years ago yeah three or four years ago so uh yeah I think uh it fringes a

33:14

lot of the risk to me um but then I also have to be okay with the fact that I’m not gonna get as big

33:20

of a paycheck as the people that risked more yeah I think your job is more I mean I

33:27

think being an entrepreneur your job is a little more on the line as not when an entrepreneur your life is kind of on the

33:34

line I guess it so pick your poison you know yeah again pros and cons I would

33:40

say entrepreneur you’re deciding who is sticking around right entrepreneur you may be deciding a

33:48

lot of people that are sticking around but you don’t always decide your fate um but the problem with entrepreneurship

33:54

is if someone like Levi you had to get let go from shift odds are they would be

34:01

really really suffering at that point and they’d probably have to let themselves go too you know what I mean

34:07

uh oh shift would be fine that’s what’s yeah that’s what’s nice uh is

34:13

jumping jumping onto a moving ship is really good too um

34:18

but once again you don’t get those rewards of being early stage yeah but

34:24

you’re you’re lucky enough to be at shift at a really good time where you get to probably see some of that reward

34:29

then you could have more fun for sure it’s we we’re definitely at that inflection point which is that’s another

34:35

thing I’ve really found is where that’s where I like to join companies like kizzic

34:40

Now does not look anything like it did two years ago because it’s crazy and

34:46

it’s about to just get like even even easier and then neighbor.com wasn’t where they

34:52

were when I started but they had it I love that stage of a company where

34:58

it’s like okay we’ve grinded through the first few years and we’ve gone through a lot of the bull crap and we’re

35:04

sustainable enough where we are in growth mode uh We’ve proven the concept we’re not going to fold tomorrow

35:11

um and we’re right at that inflection point where some people know about us but not everyone knows about us

35:16

um that’s where I really like to join a company and that’s why you left squirrel that’s why I left scroll yeah let’s talk

35:24

let’s talk about for that for just a little bit we almost hired you

35:30

hired me yeah we did hire you for one day I was the CMO of scroll for a day oh

35:37

we don’t have it up anymore where’s my cool phrase yeah I know so yeah

35:45

sorry it was so short that I I didn’t even consider it

35:50

sorry Levi well I like to say that that one day

35:55

that I was CMOS girl is like you can tie all your success back to that one day yeah we are Levi’s number one case study

36:03

it was a fun day it was a really fun day it was fun in our weird Warehouse office

36:08

it was a cool office I love the Utah Jazz colors remember on the Windows oh yeah yeah yeah well let’s talk about

36:15

this for a second so you had left vid Army at the time this was it wasn’t soon after I mean it was a couple months was

36:22

it two weeks oh it was like two three okay so you posted on LinkedIn when you were exiting mid Army and what did you

36:28

say on LinkedIn uh I think I was just like I probably painted it really pretty like oh I decided to exit my company and

36:35

yeah for sure and I’m on to the next adventure and how many companies hit you up uh

36:41

quite a few for sure some real doozies like one guy offered to pay me in all uh

36:47

his his own cryptocurrency I was like bro I gotta make a like I need American dollars like I’m

36:58

yeah and I got I got uh I got a bunch of like co-founder stuff of like companies

37:05

that hadn’t been started yet and yeah uh yeah it was I’m really blessed that I

37:10

was able to actually like land an actual job that paid mean money after that because I my life could have gone

37:15

differently probably but yeah then we had lunch uh where I mean I’d lunch with

37:21

you guys I had lunch with kizzic um and and a few others we had Caputo’s

37:27

yeah we just delicious it’s always good it’s not first date food though I got the yeah I got the pastrami Burger the

37:34

pastrami sandwich yeah pastrami burger and it’s probably just like all over me yeah all those foods that you have to

37:39

take a shower after yeah it’s very delicious super good food um yeah we went to lunch and we were

37:45

like hey we like you you like Levi we were getting into content at the time that’s right yeah yeah we did want to

37:52

start like our content inside of things it was I think it was just the three of us and then we got Mason involved later

37:58

yeah later at dinner that we had I think like the next week or whatever that’s right it’s a good Pho yeah and that’s

38:06

how I convince you dudes to hire me as Chief marketing officer dude we were doing like 60 70 000 a month so when we

38:12

brought you on I mean I remember we talked we talked about it at length it was it was would have been

38:20

at that point I think the single second probably biggest decision we made other than uh uh bringing Mason on us yeah I

38:28

just ripped it up I I feel so bad because like when I was working at

38:33

scroll for my first day kiswick was calling me and like

38:39

I knew something was up well I just wasn’t I I once again some last little immaturity

38:48

and that’s okay get out of my system I remember I was talking to I was like walking the parking lot talking to kizik

38:54

and they were like we were like finalizing numbers on my offer and and I didn’t tell them I just started a

39:01

CMO yeah did they did they eventually know I

39:06

don’t know no

39:13

honestly I think my life would have been just as great if not better like I I way

39:18

better no that’s okay it was meant it was meant to be I believe sometimes

39:24

that’s what makes decisions hard is when it’s like I’ve got two good choices in front of me and there’s I had a couple good choices

39:30

yeah yeah no I think and that’s life all the time we’re lucky enough to be in a

39:36

place where I think very often we have multiple good choices in front of us right yeah there’s a lot of bad choices

39:42

we can make in this world but for the most part at least what I’ve noticed is

39:48

that I’m usually picking between good things and that is a really good spot to

39:53

be in yeah so you are put into this awesome situation because here’s what I think I think that you

40:01

you’re LinkedIn presence proved your value and everyone knew whatever levite

40:07

touches is gonna turn to Gold because even what you did with vid Army even

40:13

though under the hood there were issues going on financially your job wasn’t to manage all that your job was to set

40:20

this brand up for success and you did that with bit Army and you did it

40:26

successfully so regardless of the finances you successfully set up that brand to look amazing and everybody knew

40:33

it everybody was like what the heck is fit army what are they doing like everybody knew who you were and you did

40:40

your job it just sucked that everything internally just just absolutely is the worst you know

40:46

and I think that’s what I think that’s what I found that I’m good at is uh just bringing awareness to Brands and

40:52

that’s what marketing is yeah yeah so that’s where I get to live in my

40:58

I don’t I don’t like calling it genius space but I get to live I get to thrive in where I’m

41:03

talented where I’m at comfortable totally making goofy videos in an alien costume or yeah

41:09

yeah you’ve had a couple stuff with kizzic with neighbor and now a shift

41:14

with things you’re involved in now what are some what are some of your favorite things that you’ve been able to do with

41:20

each of these companies really I think what we want to get into is that Gorilla Marketing approach that you’ve taken

41:25

because it you’re not a paid guy right you don’t dabble a lot in paid marketing like what is your marketing expertise

41:32

what are you good at Levi I certainly I certainly have learned out of necessity to talk the language of paid and talk

41:39

about cacks and row as LTV and all that what’s that

41:46

we’d have a problem this is the scroll CEO uh LTV what is that is that uh learning

41:54

technician white television what but that’s like LCD televisions right

42:01

no but yeah I’m not I’m a creative I’m definitely not a performance guy but I do really geek out over creative that

42:09

performs like I I love in marketing the constraints that you have a lot of

42:15

creatives and you probably get the stand where it’s like a lot of creatives love to just create

42:21

um and they have their artistic vision uh but when you’re doing marketing creative uh it has to serve a purpose

42:30

yeah it has a fit in a box some sort of box that’s your angle you know but the but the most beautiful marketers that we

42:36

all celebrate know the overlap between education and entertainment yeah or in

42:44

Industry speak brand and direct response yeah so I really love the intersection

42:49

between the two response and brand or education entertainment see I think that that is a big issue that even we run

42:56

into with our biggest customers where they are begging for some direct

43:02

response uh results and they’re getting them at a good cost but then they see

43:08

this brand awareness cost and they think we don’t want to spend money to that we’re just going to remove that yeah

43:14

let’s remove that and just put it all towards direct response and we have to kind of Coach them and guide them and

43:19

say well if you put it all to direct response then direct response stops existing yeah because this top of funnel

43:27

brand awareness needs to exist so you uh at neighbor after you left kizzic your

43:33

role at neighbor was creative director of directory yeah um tell us about what the main goal was

43:40

when you got hired on and some of the accomplishments you had because there are a few that are really cool uh I think one thing that was really

43:46

attractive was my desire to really grow a tick tock Channel yeah um and and grow organic in general

43:54

um and so the team and I were able to to grow Tick-Tock I mean we grinded for a

44:00

few months and had and really just banging our heads against the wall but we finally had some good success

44:06

um with the alien campaign yeah um yeah what super fun what in your brain said hey I’m gonna dress up as an

44:13

alien I saw this is what I don’t understand about creative directors

44:18

it’s so crazy I saw a girl at a computer on Tick Tock wearing

44:26

um Thanos like a full Thanos prosthetic makeup but she just looked normal from

44:32

the neck down but had a Thanos head um and I just the juxtaposition I just it

44:39

dawned on me I was like i i a lot of people in like The Squatty

44:44

Potty days and the harm Brothers days the juxtaposition there was like it was

44:50

interesting to have humor that kind of humor and ads and the Funky products and

44:55

to have a funky product but what I was thinking and my theory that I put to the

45:00

test a neighbor was will people like the juxtaposition of a character that

45:05

they’ll see in ads that’s in prosthetic makeup because there wasn’t anything crazy revolutionary about an alien and

45:12

prosthetic makeup selling you a product direct to camera that was a little weird to me but but it’s been done like yeah

45:19

Satan’s sold products like ice cream and oh right yeah right yeah okay it’s been

45:25

done like Kids characters like manly bands did aliens like there’s plenty of

45:30

aliens but I was like what about the juxtaposition of putting that prosthetic makeup

45:36

character out in the real world ugc Tick Tock style uh and so I I think

45:42

that’s where we kind of hit some stride yeah then you didn’t interview a start interrupt you did like interviews like

45:48

out in Provo mall and yeah really trending yeah but we still even had a

45:55

unique Twist on that which was we have an alien out interviewing yep um and and one thing I found is in my

46:02

creative careers created we put a lot of pressure on ourselves to build things from the ground up I think in Creative

46:08

when it’s usually just taking something and and putting it your own twist on it

46:14

or putting two things that already exist and mashing them together yeah so you

46:19

started neighbors Tick Tock from zero and then how much did it grow while you

46:25

were there doing some of these techniques like by the time I left it was 280 000 followers and how your

46:32

biggest videos had done how many millions uh all together we had like 80 plus million organic views it’s pretty

46:38

awesome and that would be I mean several probably several hundred thousand dollars worth of paid if you’re gonna

46:45

you know put paid behind it yeah what if you do a let’s say you do a 30 CPM

46:50

what’s that um I don’t know the math off the top of my head on the screen but but yeah it’s

46:55

a lot of money it would cost you know several hundred thousand dollars worth of paid marketing to get that kind of

47:01

view for sure and granted it’s not direct response in the way that it’s brand awareness but but yeah it

47:07

certainly got people’s attention and and people don’t realize the halo effect and that was one thing I learned about at

47:12

neighbor was we are trying to accomplish that halo effect where it’s at the top

47:18

of funnel all the way down to the bottom funnel on the landing page uh granted neighbors should have ran out longer but

47:24

we had Billboards in Denver and la and we had uh tv ads running YouTube ads

47:31

running and uh top of funnel middle funnel bottom funnel static ads that

47:37

were direct response at the bottom of the funnel and then a landing page everything matched the alien we had the

47:43

alien over everything same color scheme yeah photography all that stuff uh so

47:48

the Hope was is that like you would see a viral Tick Tock and then you’d see a billboard and then you’d see a TV

47:53

commercial and then then you’d get targeted with the ad and you’d convert uh it does take some time and

48:00

um we ended up pivoting and doing what most clients do which is let’s go back to direct response yeah

48:06

which could backtrack a little bit uh the way I kept putting it to neighbor is uh you guys have been

48:14

going out and asking everybody to get married but you haven’t been dating anybody and that funnel is is dates yeah

48:21

it’s like you can always go out and find people that are willing to get married right now I mean for hexake this is Utah

48:33

you’re gonna have a lot more success if you go on dates yeah and better success success that will

48:39

last longer yeah like in in all reality like it you’ve worked somebody down that whole

48:45

funnel at the point that they eventually fall in love with you and stay with you forever yeah as we I’m sorry I’m just

48:53

going on a tangent again but I think like you look at all the brands that we love like that we wear forever right

48:59

like right now like I’m obsessed with how our howler Brothers but I think I had my uncle tell me about him I saw an

49:05

ad I saw like six or seven things before I ever bought anything then what convinced me is was my uncle because he

49:11

I saw his stuff and then now I have like 12 shirts from them and I love their stuff and I will have their stuff

49:17

forever yeah and think things are uh it’s really fascinating to hear people talk about the the dark funnel where

49:25

it’s not even so much a funnel anymore it’s it’s more flat than it’s ever been and and there’s so many different

49:31

channels to approach conversion from and they’re all not really talking to each other anymore and so you really just

49:39

have to do do it all be everywhere and be pushing it hard everywhere and just because you

49:45

convert through Facebook doesn’t mean they didn’t want your YouTube ad and just because just because they credit

49:51

YouTube doesn’t mean that their Uncle didn’t tell them about it yeah and so it’s it’s not even really a funnel

49:58

anymore as much as it is just like being places that people that wear the eyeballs are being where the eyeballs

50:03

being everywhere all the time and that’s why content is so freaking important and

50:09

yeah and it will be more in the future now I mean I mean Google’s kind of pushed back the whole cookie thing again

50:15

and again and again because it’s the how they make money but eventually cookies and tracking will become almost obsolete

50:21

because of this privacy because of Regulation so literally the only thing that we’re going to have in probably

50:27

three years is content yeah it’s gonna be the only thing and it’ll be it’ll be more speculative like traditional uh

50:35

advertising video channels are like billboard and TV yep well I know the guys at bestie you know the guys at

50:40

bestie are making an awesome tour right now that I believe firmly is a big

50:48

solution to what is a massive problem and that is CFOs arguing with CMOS and

50:55

creative directors on hey we need to spend money on Direct response and them saying hey we need a full funnel without

51:01

a full funnel all of this is gonna dry up like the Great Salt Lake and uh

51:06

that argument just keeps happening back and forth where uh bestie is this

51:12

post-purchase survey software that helps attribute where people actually came

51:17

from and use code chain no but um but I’m just such a huge fan

51:24

of what they’re building because I live in this space every day just like you do yeah and it’s uh it’s a massive problem

51:32

and it’s gonna get bigger because the dark funnel is so real so to be able not even a simple

51:39

survey but what they do that’s so cool is they’ll send out that survey and it’ll

51:45

say how’d you hear about us an ad and it’ll pop up six different ads which one

51:51

you know or was it this billboard and it’ll be a picture of the billboard was it this was it your grandma was your

51:57

friend and it makes it so easy for people to tell where they heard about the brand so I think that it will never

52:04

be perfect yeah right it was like somebody won’t remember exactly but it gets you a pretty good data set to know

52:11

where to put where to put more money where to put more eyeballs stuff like that so yeah yeah so um building Brands is what

52:18

you’re going to be doing for the next how many years when are you retiring yeah I don’t know I really want to do

52:25

what’s the future for Levi one of the part one of the things we’re going to shift and really having a desire to

52:31

start Brands is uh kizzic was going to be a success without me neighbor was going to be a

52:37

success without me uh I wanted to see if I could be one of the main players of a brand and take it to that 100 million

52:43

and yeah cool very cool uh so my goal in the next five years is to take shifts

52:49

Brands and a brand that in five years we’ll be

52:56

talking on a podcast and I’ll say Kano and you’ll be like everyone on the podcast no yeah yeah we we want to start

53:02

on the brand side that is our goal is to start the next household name brand so what’s your approach in marketing for

53:09

Kano for example for the next year um it’s a heavy mix of product and

53:14

marketing working together um that’s what’s really cool about shift is I’ve been able to as the marketing

53:20

person sit in on product meetings and being like man it’d be really cool to have this feature to sell the product

53:25

with or like it’d be really cool to have this just because it would be really funny

53:30

and it would like I could make some noise with that and make some content around it um so the the uh Synergy between

53:38

marketing and product at shift I think is where a lot of magic is going to happen

53:44

um and uh yeah well I we had Jay Davis who

53:51

found a pillow Cube on the podcast and I think that’s a great example of freaking love Jay dude he is it was a fun episode

53:56

so smart it was a great conversation next week oh oh thank you again well

54:02

thank you for the no invite next time we’ll go to Disney and not invite Levi maybe yeah no never

54:08

yay in Jay’s defense he has built a massive e-commerce brand yeah yes yeah

54:14

Jay’s awesome that’s only fair totally mess with you guys um I’m gonna look like the biggest diss on this podcast

54:20

not at all it’s only because we’re friends Levi yeah um no but Jay has created this awesome product

54:27

where product and marketing can work together because you see this Cube and you’re immediately like wait is that

54:33

comfortable I don’t know it catches you off guard so are those some of the Concepts that you have for Kano for

54:41

example making it this unique product so it’s more so easy easily sellable oh for

54:46

sure yeah and I don’t I don’t think people I don’t think people totally get that when they’re starting a product company is like

54:52

like kizik for example you see someone step into the shoe and you see that he’ll pop back and it’s burned in your

54:59

mind and like basically all their marketing is done for them right then then everything else is basically

55:04

supportive marketing but yeah pillow Cube does that unique product and marketing approach that’s

55:11

kind of your goal with Kano yeah yeah we’re hoping to to launch some

55:16

pretty unique products that will have potential that the content will be exciting because of the product yeah

55:24

that makes sense yeah and then your marketing approach is really what kind of AD spender you give in up

55:31

front not you know we’re starting slow and and I was I I think

55:38

even big companies will start will start companies and joint ventures

55:43

and stuff like that hoping that it will just take off yeah and I think sometimes you can get lucky but I think no matter

55:49

what your budget is or who you are um you have to grind when you’re starting a

55:57

brand yeah and it’s it’s because you have to date people before they want to get married so yep you like if you’re

56:03

just going in um with no ad history or or brand equity

56:09

and you’re trying to start a product like you just you have to be prepared to spend some money and not get the row as

56:15

you want for at least a month or two um and you you have to be willing to go

56:22

to a couple farmers markets and send out to influencers and just like hit the keyboard and and message A

56:29

bunch of people and try to get into a news article and and that’s what marketing really is anyway just the more

56:35

you scale the more people own certain categories but at the end of the day it’s being everywhere as much as you can

56:41

and putting as much as you can out there as as you possibly can yeah because you never know what’s gonna work

56:48

um and so you have to do that testing and you’ve got to be where the eyeballs are and in this world right now that

56:55

changes all the time yeah something that I have kind of been talking about

57:01

recently is uh top of funnel can go two ways and it

57:07

should go both these ways all the time but you really have two options one is you get really good at organic

57:15

and gorilla unique marketing approaches which I think you can be really

57:20

successful at and probably a big reason why Schiff believes in you because you’ve done that over and over yeah

57:26

um but then you have paid top a funnel where you’re getting brand awareness through paid advertising over and over

57:33

and over again uh when you’re paying for your top funnel your customer acquisition cost

57:39

also known as CAC is going to always increase because advertising platforms

57:46

are just going to get more expensive when you have this solid organic marketing approach uh that you can do in

57:53

tandem you can lower your customer acquisition cost over time because you’re generating all of this for free

57:59

right or whatever your internal marketing team is doing for you yeah so

58:05

that to me is such a huge piece of what needs to be happening for Brands to

58:10

succeed in the long term because if you’re relying only on paid you’re screwed and that’s why Jan and I this

58:16

year literally are trying to practice what we preach we set up this podcast we’re trying to devote 20 of all of our

58:22

time to creating content whether that’s posting on LinkedIn or our personal Instagrams or doing podcasts just

58:29

more awareness for who we are and what we’re doing so with Kano can you share

58:35

some of the unique organic marketing approaches that you’re planning on doing uh right now uh our ad buyer Connor

58:42

um he’s having a litter of puppies golden retrievers so you’re gonna have

58:47

some fun yeah of course like yeah we’re gonna have a

58:53

big litter of puppies like yeah I’m gonna go out I’m gonna put them in a box I’m gonna go out on the street and like just make people’s day I don’t know yeah

59:01

something like that I’m gonna have one I’m gonna have like five six puppies I don’t know how many

59:06

puppies is this dog’s about to have but they can have a lot they can have a lot

59:11

of the time they can have more than that like I was trying to make storage go viral like I’m gonna have freaking

59:19

puppies like come on yeah dunks I mean but there’s a lot it’s a Well explain

59:24

why kano’s different because there are a lot of dog Brands right so I have no

59:29

idea well my voice is cracked hardcore yeah so like what makes Kano different than all the other

59:35

like literally probably thousands of dog Brands out there you even had one at one point on Amazon

59:40

dog leashes on Amazon oh well we’re about to we just got approved our brand

59:46

registry just got approved today let me know if you need help only a hundred thousand dollars an hour

59:51

[Laughter]

59:59

so right now it’s not super unique uh we do have a really killer

1:00:05

um collar harness and Leash your designs are really cool the designs are cool um it’s not a Pet Smart design yeah

1:00:11

definitely not a Pet Smart design and it’s actually really high quality and we do a lifetime warranty and free shipping

1:00:18

and all that stuff uh we donate 10 of our profits to dog rescue but it’s gonna

1:00:24

get more unique like we really want to take it more in that Mischief uh hypebeast

1:00:31

um like we really want to be like the I want to call out some red boots for doggies I mean we want to make some

1:00:37

noise in in the way that those uh streetwear brands have in the dog space some people have started dabbling in

1:00:43

that um but it’s really that’s where we see kind of the white space we’ll still have

1:00:48

a lot of really cool features um that that I’m excited to to come out

1:00:53

with it’s probably 2 early to talk about a lot of them but yeah but uh we want to be more like kith or amelion Dior

1:01:01

um and liver dog Brands we want to be heavily feature based still um but we we also really want to lean on

1:01:08

a more updated approach to the lifestyle of a dog because a lot of people just kind of

1:01:13

throw out garbage yeah there’s a lot of dog bands out there and a lot of them cater to that Petco crowd yeah or their

1:01:22

you know kids in their 20s putting Amazon leashes on Amazon which is what I

1:01:28

was doing and I didn’t care about the product right like I didn’t care how cool it was or what features it had

1:01:34

um and the lifetime warranty thing is actually really cool because my dog has torn up multiple colors so and then I

1:01:43

just go buy a new one and I try to find the coolest one at Petco and they’re so ugly yeah so I think they’re gonna send

1:01:49

you one yeah dude that’d be awesome text me your address after this and I’ll send you one okay and he’s cute so he could

1:01:54

go viral I don’t know send me a photo yeah and then I’ll post you’re gonna have like and he has an Instagram called

1:02:00

pepper grams this is perfect we just did what yes this is how business is done people yeah

1:02:07

just right now right here I’m gonna send in some product he’s gonna post about I also have two dogs not my my personal

1:02:13

but my family does yeah so I may as well get some stuff Levi come on stop trying to get this is just no

1:02:20

um you text me too I’ll get both of you guys some gear cool sweet well I just think uh there is a ton of room for dogs

1:02:29

to kind of go lifestyle yeah I mean they kind of are a life weirdly they are they’re part of the family why not take

1:02:36

why not take better care of them well and like we’re thinking like what if we do Nike drops with leash drops and

1:02:43

collar drops like what if we correspond them like hey look at these new Nikes that came out here’s a set of leashes

1:02:49

and collars to correspond with that Nike drop that’s that’s pretty cool see I make them limited edition

1:02:55

yeah yeah oh for sure yeah this is that organic Gorilla Marketing approach that I think you’re super cool to that so

1:03:02

that’s gonna be really good well we have a killer our Ryan young our chief design officers really good at product and

1:03:09

coming up with those ideas and that’s I’ve really love that like I said that Synergy between marketing and product

1:03:14

and and that’s like what Mischief has done they’ve used the product as marketing yeah and that’s what Nike does

1:03:20

Nike doesn’t make money off of their exciting shoes they make most of their money off of their boring stuff but they

1:03:27

use that exciting stuff as the marketing yeah yeah that’s really cool

1:03:32

um so in the next few years you’re going to be building these Brands you’re going to be

1:03:39

working on doing a bunch of I guess what is your official title at shift CMO oh

1:03:48

yeah so we got a sea level executive on the

1:03:53

show I should have worn a tie um so

1:03:58

what advice do you have for people that graduated in professional sales to get

1:04:05

give up now to get to CMO like you graduated from Weber in professional cells you were making a thousand bucks a

1:04:12

month and now your CMO of a company that did 21 million last year and you’re gonna grow these brands with a goal of

1:04:19

100 million dollar brands like good how do you get there um

1:04:24

first of all I wouldn’t be there without LinkedIn because I you guys wouldn’t have hit me up from uh if I wasn’t on

1:04:31

LinkedIn yeah Arthur wouldn’t have hit me up if I wasn’t on LinkedIn yeah where would you start right I wouldn’t have

1:04:37

been on neighbor if it wasn’t for LinkedIn um and then none of your jobs none of my

1:04:42

jobs I would have without being active on LinkedIn yeah I 100 confidently I can

1:04:48

say I would not have that job without LinkedIn I’m not the best but I certainly would be the loudest candidate

1:04:55

yeah uh and and that I’ve never had to go seeking for those jobs like they they’ve come to you yeah you guys hit me

1:05:03

up not I it sounds braggy but it’s like you guys are like oh you’re available and we know you we’ve seen you like come

1:05:09

have lunch and then it evolves obviously LinkedIn can get you a seat at the table but uh it won’t cook the dinner yeah so

1:05:17

you got to know what you’re doing so that’s the first thing then yes you do have to actually perform and be good at what you do or else it’s going to become

1:05:23

blatantly obvious that that you’re just LinkedIn fluff well and I think it’s hard to be LinkedIn fluff honestly

1:05:29

because there’s so many experts out there that if you were just talking crap on LinkedIn it would be sniffed out

1:05:34

pretty quick yeah well and then well I think unfortunately some people do fall for it but it’s I don’t think it’s going

1:05:40

to land you the jobs you want because the people that fall for it probably aren’t hiring right yeah they’re probably not the people that yeah

1:05:45

they’re just listening exactly so there’s there’s some people that I think Pander to the crowd but uh I the second

1:05:52

thing I would say is asking for things that I want

1:05:57

um ask for Equity if you weren’t offered Equity ask for a title change if you

1:06:03

want a title change like when I first started at kizzic I was like I want to be a creative director I’ve

1:06:10

seen I’ve seen what creative directors do now that I’ve entered this world and I really like that and I think that’s a

1:06:16

career path I’d like to try yeah and uh that just wasn’t there was already someone doing that there and so neighbor

1:06:22

offered it to me and so putting it out there like this is what I’d like to do

1:06:27

like if you want to be a CMO do what Tick Tock influencers do like

1:06:32

put me in a movie and then they just try to grow their Tick Tock audience like just put on their like future CMO or uh

1:06:40

if you want to be a CMO start looking for CMO jobs or people that would want to hire one or

1:06:46

shift wasn’t hiring a CMO but I got to know them and they said what would you like and I think I’d be good in this as

1:06:52

I told them I’d be good in a CMO role and and then we started narrowing that down and what the day-to-day would look

1:06:57

like and it just became clear that I could provide the value in exchange for the salary and there I was yeah

1:07:05

uh don’t be afraid to ask for it to take a lunch to put yourself out there it’s

1:07:12

uh what Michael Scott and Wayne Gretzky said Miss 100 of the shots you don’t

1:07:17

take Michael Wayne Gretzky Michael Scott well

1:07:22

I think that that is I think that’s really good advice and you seriously are that example of using LinkedIn as the

1:07:31

ultimate resume and using it to Showcase everything that you did like everything you did at neighbor

1:07:37

you’d showcase everything you’re doing at shift you’re showcasing on LinkedIn yeah so if there’s a horn I’ll toot it

1:07:45

it’s gonna get tooted it’s gonna get tooted by Levi don’t put me in the same room as a horn and expect me not to toot

1:07:52

it you will do the horn if I all day long if I lock eyes with a horn boom you

1:07:57

best believe it’s gonna get tooted I love it it’s gonna get taught okay

1:08:06

um you best believe that horn gonna be

1:08:13

tooted oh I’m gonna toot that horn oh that Horn’s gonna get two two dude

1:08:22

as far as your mental health goes which has also been a

1:08:29

huge part of your journey that you’ve shared on LinkedIn yeah what advice do you have for people

1:08:36

going through school graduating getting jobs being entrepreneurs starting

1:08:41

families trying to balance it all and keeping their mental health in good shape what advice do you have for me

1:08:48

dude I I don’t know if I’m a a prime example of good mental health but uh

1:08:55

one thing that’s helped me keep my sanity medication uh I think

1:09:01

I I love what Jim Carrey said uh he said I believe depression anxiety are

1:09:06

legitimate but I also believe that if you don’t eat healthy exercise and have meaningful connections that you’re not

1:09:12

giving yourself a Fighting Chance um granted sometimes it’s easier said

1:09:18

than done the Mind F of depression is that it’s yourself telling you that you can’t

1:09:24

do the things necessary to improve but wallowing in self-pity that you can’t do them and just kind of legislative Circle

1:09:31

doing in that cycle um I I’m I think what you can do is you

1:09:37

can scale back find find balls that can drop and let them drop I think we live in a society

1:09:43

that tells you you can’t drop any of the balls and uh that’s just not true like

1:09:49

you you don’t have to be where everyone else is all the time like take a deep

1:09:54

breath and allow yourself allow yourself to scale back a little bit Yeah I think they know but I think it’s our

1:10:00

generation too I think like we uh at the same time we’ve kind of seen like our

1:10:06

our parents grind for a long time in jobs that they hate it and we don’t really want that

1:10:13

and we want to create our own path but what that comes with is a lot of hats to wear and we don’t want to drop the ball

1:10:20

because everything’s tied to our personal self-worth and all this stuff so I think I I think uh you’ve found a

1:10:27

good spot though you found a good spot you found your lane and I think our generation needs to learn that this is

1:10:33

not a rat race anymore this isn’t the rat race of our parents generation this is It’s Our Own Lane and we need to we

1:10:39

need to find it and stick in it well and I think one of the biggest contributors to mental health problems is comparison

1:10:47

and we can compare in a way that nobody’s ever able to be able to compare

1:10:54

before our parents would have to find out they’d have to find out about their

1:11:00

promotions with their friends water cooler talk dinners with their friends they had to figure they’d have to go to a high school reunion to find out like

1:11:06

how successful so-and-so was yeah social media screwed up but like I can look

1:11:11

right now and see 12 like I am so over the moon to announce my new position as

1:11:19

such and such yeah and and not and not only like find it out but in seconds and

1:11:24

then also scroll and see something else that was horrible that’s happened then scroll again

1:11:30

we’re just not meant to consume in the way that we’re consuming now no but

1:11:35

everyone please keep using social media because we need it because we’d be out of a job we’d be out of a job if you did

1:11:41

it I know isn’t that weird that we’re so marketing and marketing and mental

1:11:46

health are juxtaposition marketing and mental

1:11:53

health kind of uh conflict with it with each other yeah because uh and this is

1:11:59

something I’ve struggled with because I try and run a marketing company while at the same time manage my mental health

1:12:04

when really a lot of the problems with my mental health are from

1:12:09

maybe marketers so I try and find ways to balance that

1:12:15

uh but I think it’s just it’s boundaries man like gotta set boundaries yeah yeah

1:12:20

which I don’t that’s why my uh screen time goes up every week well dude what’s really hard I don’t know if you guys

1:12:25

have struggled with this but like I can I can be talking to a team member at

1:12:30

nine o’clock at night really easily and it’s just like you get that red dot

1:12:37

above a an app and you just get that itch like I I gotta see what this message is and then pretty soon you’re

1:12:43

working at four in the morning yep yeah it’s a it’s a very easy and then it’s a

1:12:48

very easy Loop to get caught in and then to continue to do it because you did it last week or you did it yesterday it’s

1:12:54

it’s a it is an addiction well there’s there’s a hit of dopamine from getting a work notification but then you open that

1:13:01

dopamine hit and it’s something you have to solve and then it’s stress yep and it’s good stress that you should deal

1:13:07

with in working hours but it’s not stress you should be dealing with at 10 o’clock at night yeah yeah and so you’re

1:13:13

we’re just so addicted to dopamine and then but but we don’t know where like we

1:13:18

don’t care where that dopamine it leads yeah yeah we’ll suffer the consequences of whatever it is right yeah well I

1:13:26

think to kind of wrap it up uh on the topic of Mental Health

1:13:32

obviously none of us what we do doesn’t Define our Worth right like it doesn’t

1:13:38

matter if we own a company if we work for a company if we’re on a podcast if we’re not on a podcast what we were

1:13:44

today what we’re gonna wear tomorrow if we’re going to be at Disney next if we’re going to be at Disney next week or

1:13:50

not um none of that that doesn’t Define your worth yeah thank you thank you appreciate it um but none of it defines

1:13:56

our worth we our worth is was given to us when we were born and uh nothing can

1:14:03

take that away and we hit the lottery we’re super happy to have Levi around and we think that that’s uh

1:14:10

and we hope that you’re really happy to be around them we love the value that

1:14:15

you bring as a person outside of work just fun to talk to you as the listeners

1:14:21

aren’t going to hear a lot of the stuff that we talk about outside of the podcast so

1:14:27

um Levi we love having you around thank you so much thanks for sharing your story thanks for being our CML for a day

1:14:35

I think that’s something though that’s a cool podcast exactly CMO for a day I’m

1:14:40

just saying oh where are we like talking about everybody here’s the thing

1:14:46

all of it and just like I get the name credit that’s all I’m saying okay you get name credit for sure but I just came

1:14:53

up with the idea make their entire content strategy yeah

1:14:59

and paid strategy guys and we don’t have it we don’t have a moment because we don’t want their input no no we don’t

1:15:05

know we just find different brands when we come up with a strategy on on the spot even though we could get like the

1:15:11

executives of Pepsi we won’t have them on we won’t because we this is our podcast I’ve given the idea like you

1:15:19

should release a Pepsi that also has peeps is pretty much just the same

1:15:25

[Laughter] um I don’t know like we wrap it up Levi how about you outro us a little bit on

1:15:32

uh where people can find you where people can find shift and maybe a little monologue you can find me at the local

1:15:38

bar oh really it’s gone that way now uh I don’t know just connect with me on

1:15:44

LinkedIn you guys are good dudes I’m grateful sorry that I quit after a day uh one day you’ll always be rcmo for a

1:15:52

day the fact that we can hang out still uh and talk like this it means a lot about

1:15:58

you guys character I appreciate it of course yeah no well we just love having

1:16:03

you around yes we do we love chatting any more lunches more Disney trips you know in the future or whatever you just

1:16:09

gotta convince me to actually come to Lehigh I know that’s too far of a drive man oh

1:16:14

goodness I mean I wasn’t I guess we were enjoying yeah but yeah behind Draper it’s the point of the

1:16:21

mountain you go over point of the mountain it’s too too far I don’t know talking to people it’s scary it’s scary

1:16:28

I’m an extrovert but man I’m an introvert you know what I mean all right all right on that note thanks

1:16:34

again Levi for coming ADHD we have it diagnose me right now boom everyone uh let us know let us know

1:16:43

in the comments if I have ADHD and if we don’t get any comments we’re just gonna pretend oh my gosh

1:16:52

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