Navigating Digital Marketing and Mental Health: Insights from Justin Brey on ‘Scroll Sessions’ Podcast

Introduction

In an engaging episode of the ‘Scroll Sessions’ podcast, hosts Dan Page and Shane Hickenlooper welcomed digital marketing expert and mental health advocate Justin Brey (JB). The conversation offered a deep dive into JB’s journey in digital marketing, his personal struggles with mental health, and the interplay between professional life and personal well-being.

JB’s Journey in Digital Marketing

JB’s path in digital marketing started with a passion for creativity and entrepreneurship. Initially drawn to graphic design, he pursued digital marketing after the financial constraints kept him from attending the Art Institute. His journey took him through various stages, from freelancing to working in agencies and ultimately in-house roles, learning and evolving along the way.

The Balance Between Work and Personal Life

One of the key themes of the conversation was the balance between professional endeavors and personal life. JB shared his experiences with the challenges and pressures of agency life, managing numerous brands and a team of ad buyers. He reflected on the importance of staying passionate and curious, emphasizing the ever-changing nature of digital marketing.

Mental Health Struggles and Recovery

A significant part of JB’s story was his candid sharing of his mental health struggles. He opened up about reaching a point of severe personal crisis, including thoughts of suicide, and how he managed to turn his life around. The turning point came from realizing the importance of family, re-aligning his priorities, and seeking therapy.

Mental Health in the Workplace

The podcast underscored the critical importance of addressing mental health in the workplace. JB’s story is a testament to the impact that personal struggles can have on professional life and vice versa. It highlighted the need for supportive work environments where mental health is taken seriously, and employees feel comfortable discussing their challenges.

Looking to the Future

Looking ahead, JB expressed his commitment to continue growing in the digital marketing field and his ongoing efforts to support mental health awareness. He talked about his new venture, Here Brotherhood Co., focused on creating a platform for men to discuss mental health issues and support each other.

Conclusion

Justin Brey’s journey is a powerful reminder of the complex interplay between our professional lives and personal well-being. His story on the ‘Scroll Sessions’ podcast provides valuable insights for anyone navigating the challenges of a demanding career while maintaining mental health and personal relationships.


Listeners can find more of Justin Brey’s insights and follow his journey on LinkedIn, where he actively shares his experiences and thoughts on digital marketing and mental health.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/justinbrey/

https://linktr.ee/justinbrey


[Music] welcome to scroll sessions  everybody uh we’re excited to be here  

0:09

today we’ve got an awesome guest JB  and I’m here with my co-host Dan Page  

0:15

JB why don’t you uh introduce yourself a little  bit give us a little bit of background on who   you are yeah for sure I’m stoked to beer I don’t  know if I’m qualified to be on this podcast but  

0:23

we’re not qualified yeah we are not qualified to  run one so we’re in good you’re in a good company  

0:31

yeah I mean just a little bit about myself  is I’ve been in digital marketing for   I guess professionally for like seven or eight  years but unprofessionally like ever since I  

0:40

graduated high school pretty much I’ve just  been always very like entrepreneurial driven and  

0:46

um creative focused I started out in graphic  design okay that’s I love drawing and stuff and  

0:52

kind of like my love for drawing and  creativity I was I was accepted at   um the Art Institute if you guys okay cool you  know what that was for graphic design wow but  

1:01

um it was too expensive so I didn’t go and wait  is this the Art Institute of Chicago no it’s in  

1:08

like San Diego okay or San Francisco one of the  Sands yeah yeah it’s funny because I remember  

1:14

and this is a small side tangent Kanye West once  tweeted he’s like I’m going to teach a class at  

1:21

the Art Institute of Chicago and then the Art  Institute of Chicago tweeted back and said no   you’re not and I thought it was like the funniest  thing I’d ever heard anyway that’s a sign that’s  

1:31

a side note but they might have one in Chicago  but um anyways yeah so like I it was one of those  

1:36

things where you just like brought in I was never  very um like I hated school and stuff so I going   the art path was like what I wanted to do yeah  yeah and um it was one of those things where you  

1:46

like went in and instead of like them looking at  your grades they looked at your artwork and so I   brought in all these like drawings that I shared  and they’re like we’d love to like have you and  

1:53

accept you and how cool and it was cool but it was  just too expensive and so didn’t end up doing that  

2:00

um ended up uh going on a mission and coming  back LDS mission sure yeah that’s what that is

2:07

um where’d you serve in South Africa okay very  cool we’ve got people that work at scroll that   served in uh Ghana and where was the other one  uh it starts with an L Liberia it’s right next  

2:18

to Ghana oh cool yeah yeah sweet which I guess  is more like Western right yeah so yeah I was  

2:24

you were very sorry yeah it’s a continent I  was I was in Johannesburg and then like cape  

2:31

Town’s like even you know at the very Coast  but one of the founders of film lab served in  

2:37

Mitch tallmadge’s brother right there  served in South Africa oh really yeah   actually most of it was in Botswana okay very  very I think it’s its own mission yeah yeah  

2:46

but anyways got back got kind of back into  graphic design so I mainly started doing like  

2:51

just freelance stuff like yeah graphic design and  things like that and that like kind of my love  

2:57

for creativity and Entrepreneurship and business  just kind of led to digital marketing I guess and   that’s what I ended up getting my degree in at  UVU which took me 12 years to get that’s awesome  

3:08

really still don’t have mine okay well yeah I um  I like I said I just school’s never really been  

3:15

my thing and I I dropped out several times to try  to start businesses and then I would come back and  

3:20

anyways I finally did it which congrats I guess is  cool yeah yeah I finally finished my degree last  

3:27

year too it it’s not it’s when you’re close enough  it’s like you may as well that’s like the position  

3:32

because I was already in like the industry and  I was already like pretty well established but   I had my wife was like you only have like three  semesters like just finish yeah yeah so I was like  

3:41

fine fine I’ll do it wives for you why well I just  have that uh have that tendency to do that they do  

3:49

and so motivators of the world yeah if I had to do  it over again I probably honestly and I maybe this  

3:55

sounds bad but I I don’t think I would have gone  to college yeah yeah I remember when I started at   um one of the agencies I worked at there was a kid  there who was like 19 and he wasn’t getting paid  

4:04

a ton but at 19 years old he’s working in agency  and agencies are the best way to get experience   100 in marketing for sure because yeah you’re  just constantly working with different brands  

4:13

and things like that and I’m like that kid by  the time he’s my age which is almost 32 he’s just   gonna be exceptional so much further yeah I am  amazing yeah and I mean they say that like if you  

4:23

want to make six figures learn a craft right yeah  and media buying or graphic design if you can get  

4:29

exceptional at one of those things then you’re  so valuable I mean even scroll right now we’re  

4:35

looking for a really high quality ad buyer that  has managed Enterprise accounts and it’s hard to  

4:43

find one that is worth working yeah and but when  you do they’re worth their weight in gold so and  

4:50

a lot of them it’s just simply because they’ve had  experience and speaking on that like I yesterday I  

4:55

went to a lunch with this uh 16 year old kid and  his dad that you lived in my neighborhood and the  

5:02

kids interested in digital marketing and he’s like  I don’t want to like flip burgers at McDonald’s in  

5:07

high school like I want to start a Drop Shipping  Store I want to start like an SM a a agency like  

5:13

I just want to like get into it and I’m like dude  like just take the summer learn everything you can  

5:19

learn and like start trying to get clients yeah  because literally because you will be so far ahead  

5:24

of all of your peers in high school and work for  free or yeah you know they’re very cheap right  

5:31

for the cost of working at McDonald’s yeah yeah  totally 100 yeah because when you’re when you’re   that young it’s like what do you I mean obviously  you want money but it’s a different situation when  

5:40

you have like a wife and kids and a mortgage  yeah it’s very different you know like I was   me and my wife were very poor for most of our yes  yeah yeah we got married really young we had kids  

5:51

really young and you know she was a teacher and  it’s like I know teachers make amazing money my  

5:57

wife was a teacher yeah we were crushing it but  yeah so um anyways I I don’t I don’t know if I  

6:04

regret going to school like I I think it would be  cool one day to like be a professor or something   I really like teaching a lot and yeah and I’ve  been a lot more active on LinkedIn lately one of  

6:13

my favorite things is like students hitting me up  or something and asking me for like career advice   and I realized how much like I enjoy that and love  it for sure and so I always feel like doing like  

6:22

some sort of um just giving back somehow yeah  what is it called though when like there’s a   professor yeah adjunct or associate yeah like I  think doing something like that would be super  

6:31

cool I agree and always have to get my degree  yeah yeah a lot of those a lot of those places  

6:36

saw some of them I think it depends on how much  experience you’ve had yeah versus like if you’ve  

6:42

got maybe a little experience and they want you  to have a degree I think it depends on who you   it’s like Bill Gates having a dog doctorate  right like he didn’t actually get a doctorate  

6:50

they just gave him that yeah yeah they’re like  you deserve this which they that’s real yeah  

6:56

oh it’s mind-blowing professors have a degree no  no no I went to enzyme College ldsbc in Salt Lake  

7:06

and a lot of their associate professors I think  they require you to have some sort of degree at  

7:11

a bare minimum um but that I remember taking  classes from a guy who I don’t even think had  

7:16

a degree but he was a CMO at a company yeah and  those those were the best teachers because one  

7:22

of the issues in college that I found especially  with marketing and probably any subject nowadays   is just how out of like touch and out of date  they are Theory I just thought yeah you’re just  

7:32

talking about high level theory for the most part  you’re not actually like talking about things just   Advance yeah like nowadays it’s like a week the  thing with marketing and and creativity and stuff  

7:42

it changes on sometimes like a weekly basis on  a dime yeah yeah and I was I was currently in   the field when I was in school finishing up my  last three semesters and I had professors that  

7:49

were teaching things and I was like that’s not  true yeah like that doesn’t work anymore yeah for   sure like you’re already behind you know because  you were running an agency five years ago and you  

7:58

think that those Concepts apply to today yeah and  I feel like for back in the olden days before the   internet that was probably true there probably was  years where it was a similar strategy but now with  

8:07

the Internet it’s just like changing changes all  the time so why are you so interested in teaching  

8:13

I don’t know I think I just find like a genuine  join it like it wouldn’t be about the money for me  

8:18

um fulfillment yeah I guess like I when I when  I started getting more traction on LinkedIn I   was like my first thought which is I guess kind  of terrible I was like how do I make money from  

8:27

this yeah of course I guess yeah especially if  you’re an owner if you’re a business owner yeah  

8:33

yeah like that’s like where my mind went so I was  like I’m gonna open up like a Consulting thing so   I I don’t know if you guys heard of volley but  I started doing like Consulting on volley and  

8:41

I started charging people for like having calls  with me like students and stuff didn’t have much  

8:46

money and I just started to feel bad I was like it  wasn’t as fulfilling and so I I took it down and  

8:53

I just started talking like for free I was like  this is yeah I just like I didn’t necessarily need   the money not that I’m like flush with cash but  like yeah yeah like I I enjoy doing it enough for  

9:04

free yeah so that’s awesome and it’s definitely  fulfilling for sure I feel you on that I think  

9:09

like right now I I just got a a member position  with Davis Technical College oh cool and I’m  

9:17

that’s like my first maybe intro into like giving  back to the community because I’m from Kaysville   that college is based in Kaysville and I’m excited  to give back there I guess finally I knew one of  

9:29

the professors and she reached out it’s kind of  I didn’t even reach out she reached out to me   and was like Hey we’re looking for agency owners  we would love to like have you be a part of the  

9:39

board to help us develop our curriculum make sure  make sure we’re like keeping up with the trends  

9:45

right and that we only meet like once or twice  a year and I’m like and everything changes in   six months exactly so I’m like well I we we’re  gonna we’re gonna have to guess a little bit in  

9:55

the future you know for curriculum’s sake but I’m  excited about that yeah stuff like that would be   awesome and that’s that’s another point to college  I think is good is like networking yes right for  

10:05

sure like a lot of people are like everyone got  my masters to network right and so like I did I   definitely did make a lot of good connections so  I feel like there definitely are benefits but I  

10:13

remember I got a call from UVU like a few months  after I graduated and he’s like hey he’s like I’m   just doing a survey about like UVU and marketing  students and he’s like he’s like how what would  

10:22

you how much has applied to you since you started  your career and I was like maybe two percent   he was like oh he’s like you must have you  must have gone into a different field than  

10:30

what you graduated I was like no I graduated in  digital marketing and I’m in digital marketing   yeah crazy I think uh so on LinkedIn you talk a  lot about mental health yeah do you feel like uh  

10:44

teaching helps with mental health or sharing with  others that that helps with mental health for you   the mental health aspects I feel like because  like I I’ve been on LinkedIn for a little while  

10:54

but I just started so like the very first post  I did that like blew up was a photo it was in  

11:00

December so I haven’t really been Super Active  since until December it was a photo of my wife   reading scriptures to our kids in the morning and  it just like blew up yeah and I was like what the  

11:10

hell is going on yeah for sure like I got like  thousands of likes and tons of comments made   all these connections linkedin’s very religious  I guess but like maybe I’ve never wanted to go  

11:22

like that even in the post I was like I was like  I don’t like talking about religion and it wasn’t   really meant to be like religious it was just  like this is something like I love my wife for  

11:32

I guess and I know I do love my wife I was just  yeah no yeah I know I know what you meant though   yeah and anyways ever since then things that  you love about your life exactly and then um  

11:42

ever since then I basically started posting every  day and just grew like thousands of followers over  

11:47

the span of a couple months which was cool and um  then from there I started being because I used to  

11:54

just post about like marketing stuff I was like  this is what’s working in marketing and no one   for sure no one cared at all and then I took  that and I started I guess like posting more  

12:02

personal stuff and then I started going into  like my past of like my journey because like I  

12:07

went through a crazy Whirlwind of mental health  and you know I mean my wife almost got divorced   and you know I I had thoughts of like suicide  and things like that and I overcame that and I’ve  

12:17

been really transparent about kind of that whole  journey on LinkedIn and ever since I’ve done that   that’s what’s really like opened up kind of the  mental health yeah as soon as you’re vulnerable  

12:27

like it really I think opens up the floodgates  to people to relate to you right yeah and that’s  

12:34

been really cool because I get I get hit up now  by guys a lot every week and and then that’s led  

12:39

to some I don’t know if you guys know who John  Moore is yeah yeah he’s uh he’s at enzyme College  

12:44

I’m actually I think I go to I’m going to lunch  that’s right next week oh yeah he was like the   creative director for ldsbc I think yeah he was  that’s right yeah and so um yeah I like met him  

12:54

like a couple months ago and we went to lunch and  then um I always think I feel like everything kind  

12:59

of happens for a reason and I was always trying  to I’m like I wonder why I’m getting all this   traction on LinkedIn like is there a purpose to  it and then I went to lunch with John Warren and  

13:06

he talked about like an apparel brand underground  mental health for men and I was like like right  

13:11

when he said that I was like this is and he’s like  I want to partner with you yeah and so this is  

13:16

this hair here here here yeah it’s here yeah okay  h-e-a-r-e it’s like I’m here and I’m I’m here yeah  

13:24

yeah well yeah that makes sense yeah so why do  you think LinkedIn is such a good Community for  

13:30

mental health because I’ve noticed that too that  Instagram doesn’t really care Tick Tock doesn’t  

13:36

really care but more about vanity and there’s  definitely plenty of vanity on LinkedIn for sure  

13:42

I think there’s yeah why do you think that they  would care about mental health more as a platform   I think it’s just the audience on LinkedIn  from what I found I’ve I’ve never um really  

13:52

enjoyed like organic social very much at all and  I’ve never tried posting very much anywhere yeah  

13:58

um but what I’ve heard from LinkedIn is I’ve  I genuinely feel like it’s the most authentic  

14:04

um audience like out there like I just  can’t believe the conversations that you   had relationships I’ve gained through Linkedin  yeah it’s like it’s just it’s in such a short  

14:13

amount of time that that’s another piece of  advice that I give students that reach out   to me or something as I’m like start posting on  LinkedIn yeah like just start and like don’t like  

14:24

just post genuine thoughts that you’re having  like that’s what that’s what works on LinkedIn   even in like I’ve had people come and be like this  isn’t Facebook and it’s like well I got like 300

14:32

yeah but it’s been it’s been a really like  cool experience so far and um yeah it’s led  

14:46

to like doing this thing on the side with with  John and obviously we both have our full-time   job so it’s something we’re just solely doing  on the side yeah um and yeah so we’re excited  

14:55

about it that’s really really cool yeah so  do you feel like um I guess to play Devil’s  

15:02

Advocate to LinkedIn right because I post a lot  on LinkedIn too I I think there’s the flip side  

15:07

of people saying it’s the least authentic because  people are saying everyone’s always looking for a  

15:12

job or I get all I hit get hit up with all  these spam messages oh yeah I do for sure  

15:19

how would you uh Advocate that it is more  authentic than a Facebook or an Instagram  

15:26

man that’s a hard question because that is I  don’t it’s hard because I don’t have much to   compare it to because I’ve never tried posting  much but when you look at when you look at  

15:34

someone’s personal post on LinkedIn compared to  someone’s personal post typically on Instagram or  

15:40

Facebook I guess people are still on Facebook  yeah yeah I don’t know we need we need them  

15:46

to release their quarterlies but yeah and then  like Twitter’s a whole other animal right yeah  

15:52

um just the comments and  conversations that take place   um I just feel like are so much more I don’t  know what am I trying to say like beneficial or  

16:05

they’re they’re more interesting conversations  they’re not just like oh this is cool like thumbs   up yeah for sure like people make genuine  comments that you respond to and then it  

16:13

like leads to your your inbox um like last night  I posted a pretty like controversial I guess go  

16:22

check it out but go check out my LinkedIn I’m  just kidding um I I just I genuinely was asking  

16:27

people because there’s a whole marketing thing  around like support women-owned businesses or   support like this business or something I was  generally encouraged because I like that form  

16:34

of messaging has never really worked for me like  when someone makes their business why about their  

16:39

gender or their race it doesn’t make me want  to buy their product right like I’m all about  

16:44

like the service you offer like the product like  the quality and so I was curious if that form of  

16:50

marketing works for people and I did put up a  poll I was like does someone’s race or gender   or sexual orientation make you want to buy from  them buy from them right it was it was basically  

17:00

like yes or no and from that it was just like and  I and I honestly thought I was going to get a lot   of like [ __ ] and like I wasn’t I like I don’t  care first of all if you do then that’s fine like  

17:09

I personally don’t and you asked a question yeah  it was just a question because I was just curious   because I I genuinely see I mean I think you guys  see it like you just see that former marketing all  

17:17

over the place yeah and only I had I don’t know  how many votes I have now but I got hundreds of   votes and only one person voted that they did a  shop and I was like that’s just interesting to  

17:28

me that yeah yeah you see that all over the place  yet it seems like most people care more about the   quality and for sure and I guess it depends on  your Market too right like mix hers is a brand  

17:38

here out of Utah where they Pride themselves on  being female founded but their product is targeted  

17:44

towards females and like I also don’t know if  I would say like because I have you guys ever   read start with Why by um yeah yeah uh I know I’ve  watched the YouTube video about start with why but  

17:55

I haven’t read the book okay the book’s awesome  and I I would even argue that like their why is  

18:00

not necessarily like our why is we’re women out  right um it’s funny we actually I actually to do  

18:06

marketing for mixers oh yeah they were a client  at one of the agencies I worked at oh nice yeah  

18:11

Cool brand no awesome really cool really cool  brand like what they stand for is awesome  

18:16

um and they’re obviously very centered around  women and for a product like that like you   probably do want it to like be oriented that way  yeah you probably want a woman to own it because  

18:25

they understand the needs of women but I feel  there’s a difference between like this like I’m   a woman like I made this product because I wanted  to help women instead of being the primary message  

18:35

being like I’m a woman like you should support me  because I’m because this is a woman it’s a flip in  

18:41

the conversation yeah the story isn’t necessary  buy for me because I’m a woman it’s here’s my  

18:48

experience with painful periods for example yeah  exactly like if a guy comes in he’s like I made  

18:54

this product for 12 women’s periods everyone’s  gonna be like I don’t know yeah like what are you   talking about like you don’t know you’re talking  about for sure because yeah someone experience  

19:03

that yeah and I have no problem if people do  if that genuinely is what people are in I’m all  

19:09

about just like personal freedom like I just like  whatever people want to do they should do like you   know as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone or anything  like I’m okay with it but I like the approach to  

19:18

LinkedIn of instead of pushing your agenda you ask  a question and Inspire comments and I think yeah  

19:25

that’s okay but that was the point I was getting  yeah and I think that’s a great approach uh  

19:32

to use LinkedIn because it can be a great source  for conversation and I’ve noticed the same thing  

19:38

that I can have good dialogue with people  because they’re not there trying to defend   their Instagram page and followers instead  they are open to a thoughtful conversation  

19:48

in the DMS because it’s not about their  social network and their visibility or  

19:54

any of that yeah it’s just about it’s just  literally about connecting yeah I feel like  

20:00

LinkedIn is kind of the I don’t know maybe  people disagree with this but from what I   can tell and like I said I don’t have a lot to  compare it to because I haven’t tried much on  

20:07

other socials but I feel like it is one of  like the least like kind of politically LED

20:12

from my personal experience like I’ve  posted things before that I feel like might  

20:25

like be construed yeah like kind of like  that post like I thought like even though   I wasn’t like let’s not support like yeah  it’s like I was very just like whatever  

20:35

um I thought I was going to get a lot more  negative feedback and I really didn’t and I   was I was pretty surprised whereas if I feel like  I put something like that on maybe like Instagram  

20:42

or something yeah it might have been like making  a story yeah well I think you led the conversation   the right way where the way that I have approached  LinkedIn in the past has kind of been aggressive  

20:53

yeah and that leads to dialogue that’s aggressive  which is my fault so I think that the way you  

21:00

approach it matters a lot and totally you approach  it in a really good way so I think that that helps   maybe I think IRS will typically try to add  like some sort of like um comedic like elements

21:12

yeah yeah like I like I did a third option  and it was like I only shop on Amazon  

21:21

um so it’s like kind of like I but I I do have I  also have serious posts like I LinkedIn I’m kind  

21:28

of like uh you talked a lot of you talk a lot a  lot about your family you talk a lot about your  

21:33

your own personal but history I had a post that  was like pretty heavy on suicide yeah and um  

21:40

and kind of like my personal experience and like  LinkedIn like censored it it was my only post that   I’m pretty sure they did yeah like they were it  wouldn’t surprise me they do that on most of the  

21:50

platforms when you talk about that subject yeah  and so that’s and I I’ve never had that happen   before but I was like usually like I started  getting comments and likes pretty quickly and I  

21:58

was like what has happened like my Impressions  were really low so I just head up a bunch of   people I was like can you share this I was like  this is and because it’s the most important  

22:05

message you’ve shared on LinkedIn yeah yeah and so  stuff like that obviously I’m not like I don’t I  

22:11

try not to be like super funny but yeah for sure  no it’s a serious conversation for sure but uh   anyways yeah I’ve just I’ve seen a real benefit  and just being very genuine and authentic on the  

22:20

platform and I feel like when I have been that way  it’s just it’s lots of really good conversations   and yeah I really enjoyed it yeah why I guess  why do you think uh talking about your mental  

22:31

health I guess as a man is really important  and you’ve got you know you’ve got this brand   that’s targeting men with mental health issues  probably to get more awareness I guess why is  

22:43

why is that important right now that’s a good  question one thing one thing I realized and  

22:48

um my buddy John or I guess partner um is men  like struggle talking about things a lot of  

22:54

times and not only do they struggle talking about  talking about these with people but specifically   like family members and their wives like it’s  it’s hard for a lot of guys to to communicate  

23:04

and express their emotions to people that  they’re closest with which is like kind of   funny yeah if you think about it because you  think that that would be the only people you  

23:13

should be open with yeah you know and so one  thing I’ve noticed since I’ve been more open   about you know like my past and things like that  is I get guys hitting me up because they just  

23:23

they first of all they see me being transparent  about my past and they feel like they can share   with me and there’s also the component of like  they don’t fully have this relationship with  

23:32

me where they feel like they can be like very  vulnerable yeah and open with me even though I   get messages a lot that are like hey I hope you  don’t judge me for this I was like I don’t even  

23:39

know you I was like so yeah but first of all  like I’m not gonna judge you yeah and I feel   like people when you know people struggle going  to their their wives and stuff because you know  

23:48

they I think they probably care more about what  they think what they think of them or you know  

23:53

when you’re with someone every day or you know  you see your family at Christmas like it’s just   you know it’s a lot easier to talk and and to and  to have conversations like that with people that  

24:04

um you don’t fully have those relationships with  and so that’s that’s also kind of the purpose   of what me and John are doing with here is we  you know when people become members we haven’t  

24:14

opened it up yet we’re still just kind of very  slowly building it but we we want to give people   platform and guys to talk on like almost like  a Therapy Group yeah is there going to be an  

24:23

anonymous side to that yeah so like we’re we’re  still kind of working it out I don’t know if you   guys have heard of volley yeah yeah yeah we’re  familiar with it yeah so I think we we’re leaning  

24:32

towards using that platform and a big part of it  is we want to keep group like private groups small  

24:39

um that’s another issue we’ve seen as if like a  groups get too big then guys are also like kind   of scared to share and they shut down a little  bit so keeping groups tight knit of like probably  

24:47

20 at most in their own personal little volley  group or they can either chat or do video yeah  

24:53

um and you can also make those groups  like pretty private as well and like   pretty secure and so that’s kind of the  route I think we’re going with right now  

25:03

um and then also the clothing component  that I’m really excited about is   um we want to build like custom limited drops  t-shirts that are designed around certain men’s  

25:13

stories so like interesting like the art and the  stories on them will be very unique and designed  

25:19

to a specific individual who has overcome  mental health or suicide or drug addiction   or you know whatever it may be and we’re kind of  calling those guys like the heroes yeah right and  

25:29

then you know we’re going to give a really large  percentage of whatever we make um to like building  

25:38

um awareness around mental health you know  or donating to families who’ve lost like a   father or brother or things like that so that’s  another company very very cool and to give some  

25:49

people some context uh to your story what what  is your story with mental health and how did you  

25:56

get to where you are today I know that that could  probably go on for hours and hours but yeah so I  

26:02

mean it started I guess it’s fairly like religious  driven kind of is you know obviously I grew up LDS  

26:10

um and I was never Super Active in the church but  I obviously started a mission loved my mission  

26:16

um got back kind of went active again got married  to my wife yeah started being active again we got  

26:21

like still in the temple year later and then after  that like a year I was like I’m done like I’m just  

26:26

done with the church and so I I left and I was  I was very inactive for probably six or seven  

26:32

years of our marriage okay which had its strains  especially when you start having kids because you   start having kind of different opinions and  stuff but um not only that but I really just  

26:41

started to become a very selfish individual  I was just totally focused on my own needs  

26:49

um I was very into fitness and I still am but I  was like that was like my number one thing became  

26:55

like obsessive yeah and it sounds crazy but the  gym like came before my kids like my wife would   get home I’d go to the gym she would put the  kids down alone like yeah I was not there I  

27:04

was not helping like yeah and I think back now  and I’m just like anyways I was just not down  

27:09

a good path I started drinking a lot I started  getting into drugs um we we actually separated  

27:14

twice me and my wife and so the first time we  were separated for a few months and it wasn’t   obviously it was serious but it wasn’t like super  super serious we ended up getting back together  

27:25

um just because I felt like you know we  just had Grown Apart in our differences   yeah we both wanted different types of  people yeah and so we got back together  

27:35

um the bad thing was when we got back  together nothing changed right it was   just like we still love each other let’s get  back together nothing changed things got worse  

27:42

um you know I even got more down and down and down  and started getting more into alcohol and things   like that and then we we really separated for  about six months we we filed our divorce papers  

27:52

um and then I really I the sad thing is when we  when we separated the second time I wasn’t even   like sad in the beginning like I was like that’s  how like far gone I was yeah that’s how far like  

28:02

removed you were detached I was from like what  was important in life did your feelings were  

28:07

around yourself they were totally centered on  myself did you have kids at the time yeah we   had two yeah yeah we had two we had two boys  and like thinking back on it now I’ll never  

28:17

forget the night we separated I remember my wife  like slapped me because I was just being terrible   I was doing terrible things and making lots  of mistakes and I just didn’t even care like  

28:27

it was just it was insane and I left and we  we were separated and then uh for some reason  

28:34

um well not for some reason around Christmas time  you know I started thinking about my family when  

28:39

I started getting a little more sad but then  just started to fill my very my needs I guess  

28:45

with things to make me happy for a short amount  of time and then Christmas came around and my  

28:51

wife started sending me pictures of my kids  like opening presents and I just like lost it   and I was like yeah I was like this is what  am I doing yeah and then I pushed everything  

28:58

out of my life I stopped doing drugs I stopped I  like stopped doing alcohol I started like reading  

29:03

scriptures again and praying and um I guess  actually a little before that though when I  

29:08

when I really hit rock bottom is I I wanted I  wanted to get back together with my wife and I  

29:14

was like I want this to work and she’s like  there is no way in hell we’re ever getting   back together like there’s just no way yeah  and so that led me to you know I I drove of  

29:23

um up in the mountains and I took my gun and  I wrote a suicide note to my kid and she’s I   was like this is it like I just I’ve you know  I realized what how much I’d lost right when I  

29:34

didn’t have anything in my life that was making  me happy you know or happy quote-unquote yeah  

29:41

um I ended up not doing it and I ended up kind  of turning my life around a little bit I started   like serving a lot um I started like playing the  guitar at like an old folks home and I started  

29:51

really trying to get out of looking at myself  yeah and looking at and helping others yeah  

29:56

and all this knowing that my wife my wife was  still just like we’re not getting back together   and then um my wife have you heard of like  manifesting yeah yeah for sure I I always  

30:06

thought it was kind of weird but you know I I kept  being like I’m changing like I promise like I’m   a different person now and she’s like I don’t  care like we’re getting back together yeah and  

30:15

um and I I think the good thing with with what  helped us was I I actually wasn’t changing for   her I was changing for me because I knew I had to  change because I was just so unhappy you had that  

30:26

climax in your life yeah it brought you to that  that moment where you realize you had to change   for yourself yeah and and that’s really what it  came down to and anyways um my wife ended up going  

30:37

to this manifesting class and she was like Hey do  you after the class she was like hey do you mind   if I come over and I was like sure there’s like  no idea what you want to talk about and she’s  

30:45

like let’s go sit on your beds we’re inside of  my bed and she pulls out like this notebook and   she’s like I want to read you something in my  manifestation class and she just starts reading  

30:53

um like I’m back with Justin like we have like a  home like he has like a good job like we have a  

31:00

like yeah all these things and I am just like  in tears because I’ve been to that point I was  

31:06

like we’re never getting back together like our  families you know are we were a week away from   our divorce papers like like we had we had signed  them filed them like a week away from it being  

31:16

finalized and she was like she was like I want  to like try to like give this a shot and so she  

31:21

gave me 90 days to make sure that I was good and  then after those 90 days uh we got back together   and wow and when was this so when did you get  back together two and a half years ago okay ish  

31:32

um and what’s crazy is the whole manifesting  thing literally everything she wrote down came   true yeah like it was just it was just insane to  me and so it’s there’s power in putting things  

31:42

out there in Words and thoughts and on paper for  sure it really is and before that moment I would  

31:49

I was always like I just didn’t really believe  in that stuff very much yeah and then now I’m  

31:54

obviously I just I couldn’t believe it like  it just it was it changed my life around and  

32:00

um since your life’s literally done like  an entire 180 yeah in the last couple  

32:06

years yeah I just I look back and I just  can’t believe how far we’ve come and it’s   yeah and I just it’s I’ve been very blessed since  you know I kind of switched my life around and  

32:15

obviously we’re not perfect like yeah it’s always  a work in progress but you’re not sure I’m very  

32:20

close I’m getting there well what’s I guess what’s  been the biggest lesson then you’ve learned coming  

32:27

going through this personal Journey that you’ve  been on and now being back together with your  

32:32

wife having I would say a relatively successful  career from the outside like what’s been your  

32:39

biggest learning experience what’s the biggest  thing you’ve learned the biggest things for me um  

32:44

and I don’t like too many things too religious but  the biggest turnaround for me was like having an  

32:49

eternal perspective on life right and I get that  not everyone’s religious and that’s totally fine   um I do think it’s healthy to like believe  in something greater than yourself and for  

32:57

me that’s God and um turning back to that helps  me and having that Eternal perspective and also  

33:04

um not being selfish yes for sure I think that’s  I think that’s probably the biggest issue most  

33:09

people have in their marriages is like you just  marriage is hard yeah like it is I think everyone  

33:15

that’s married can agree it’s very it’s it’s hard  it’s a new decision every day to commit to love  

33:21

and commit to understanding right yeah and it  almost seems like it’s almost seems kind of I  

33:26

don’t know for lack of ever like unnatural kind  of to just be with one person you know for yeah   you probably felt that way on your mission too or  you’re like I’m with this one person 24 7. more  

33:37

than you are with your spouse even for the most  part you get home and you’re like I hated that I  

33:42

just want to be alone but I want to get married  and do it all over again forever yeah you know I   know it’s like yeah when you’re when you’re dating  obviously it’s like this is great I want to be  

33:50

with you all the time and everything and then yeah  you get married and you’re like oh man like they   don’t really do the dishes whatever comes up yeah  yeah yeah it’s like uh just all these things but  

34:03

there there is there is like uh like uh something  special about committing yourself I think to  

34:09

one person yeah and and if you if you make it  work and you put in the work every single day  

34:14

um that’s really like happiness is hard work  yes I love that you know like the things that  

34:20

make you happy um people are like oh like what  makes you happy here and it’s like the things   that might be happier are the things that are  so hard and sometimes are like make me mad like  

34:30

my kids yeah I don’t know if you guys have  kids yeah I’ve got kids but yeah yeah kids   are like so I I did not know my capacity  for anger until I had to chill through it  

34:41

but also your capacity for Joy exactly it’s  like complete opposite sides of the spectrum  

34:48

right and it’s like it’s kids are so hard but  then you have moments where it’s like my uh my  

34:54

seven-year-old like he went to first grade and  like watching him get on the bus for the first   time like things like that it’s just like  that’s awesome like or like a conversation

35:02

and I’m not saying you need kids or you you even  need to be married to be happy I’m just saying  

35:15

for me personally that’s been like the most  rewarding and I think that’s probably the most   happiness and realizing like for me personally  that’s what I want my life to be for sure so it  

35:25

seems like that’s kind of the outcome of all  your struggles and you working hard to pull  

35:31

through them your outcome is being able to see  your kid get on the bus or you know be at home   and have dinner with your family and that’s why  it brings you so much joy because you have this  

35:42

this awareness of oh my gosh I This Is My  Success I’ve succeeded this is almost the  

35:48

finish line for me of coming across those mental  yeah or uh barriers yeah and it still it still  

35:55

is frankly kind of a fight every day though  yeah yeah for sure it’s a yeah it’s a choice   you have to make every day for sure especially  if you’re an addiction prone yeah and it’s so  

36:04

easy to get put back in the selfish mindset  like very easily totally um and so I always  

36:10

have to like me and my wife also did like a lot of  therapy you know yeah therapy is awesome like we  

36:16

um we tried therapy before and it really is  about finding the right therapist because we   finally found the right one and um we did therapy  separate for a while and then we did it together  

36:25

also so like both aspects of it and that also  just helped a ton um with our relationship and  

36:32

where were you at with work amongst all this  that was two and a half years ago right yeah   I was doing freelance free all the time so  I did freelance for a long time that’s like  

36:41

how I made my living was freelance work and  doing graphic design and just kind of hustling  

36:47

um and then I got into like an agency and  then I went to another agency and then  

36:53

um yeah I worked in-house and now I work at  a company called giddy Draper and was work  

36:59

impacted by all this going on do you feel like  sometimes I feel like people who become uh who  

37:07

are struggling mentally start to over invest in  work and get really committed or they’ll step away  

37:14

completely and you know Finance us it will fall  apart what was going on work wise for you there   honestly that because you were dictating it right  yeah that obviously didn’t have a huge impact at  

37:24

the time the hard the hard part was was actually  when we got back together because I decided to  

37:29

finish my degree so we got back together while  working while trying to figure out all the   interpersonal relationship stuff that was going  on yeah because I was I was working full-time  

37:38

um and then I got a job in agency so then it was  like a lot more strict rather than just freelance   but the money was a little better so obviously I  took it yeah and um and I continued to finish work  

37:48

on the side and um so going to school full-time  working full-time like I just I’m I know a lot of  

37:53

people have done that but I just I look back and I  liked I don’t know how in the hell like I remember   driving home sometimes and just crying yeah like  because I yeah I was like I I was just so like  

38:06

stressed but I was also so happy like we were all  back together and I was so grateful at the same   time there’s a lot going on but yeah I was like  working all day and then knowing that I had to  

38:15

write a paper and you know um you know chat GPD or  whatever yeah the CPT now can solve that problem  

38:21

for you that would have been great at the time uh  but yeah I just remember I don’t know I’m sure you  

38:28

guys have been in like I remember I ran rag have  you guys ever run Ragnar yeah yeah so I did that   familiar I did that forever we’re actually in the  old Ragnar offices in Caseville our office is the  

38:37

older agner office so that’s that’s my I hate  running with a passion but my dad was gonna do  

38:44

it and he dropped out he’s like you need to take  my place okay I’ll do that that’s why I did it and  

38:49

um I remember after that just being so I got home  after three days and I was so physically just  

38:55

exhausted I sat on the bed and my wife walked in  and I just started crying and she’s like why are   you crying I was like I don’t know I’m just done  but it was just that feeling of like you’re like  

39:06

your body has hit its limit you know but yeah it  so it helps you grow so do you feel like structure  

39:12

was really good for you in that time you went and  got a job you went to school got your family back  

39:18

together do you feel like structure helped with  that even though it was hard yeah for sure I think  

39:23

there is a structure and that’s also a component  I’ve always struggled with is because I I get   I get bored really easily and I think a lot of  people with like entrepreneurship minds and stuff  

39:32

do get bored really easily yeah and I think I was  applying it to my life because you know sometimes   like living in the same place or driving the  same car you know or being married to the same  

39:40

person like it’s like yeah I start to just be  like oh I want this and I want this yeah and  

39:45

um but like I definitely there is there definitely  is a good aspect of having some sort of structure  

39:51

in your life I think for most people um and that  definitely did help for sure yeah because I know  

39:58

with you being big into fitness that structure  really helped you with Fitness right because   lifting weights exercising you realize over time  these are the positive results I get from that and  

40:09

then same thing with work you know you add some  structure to work and you realize oh these are   the positive results I get from that yeah yeah  but very interesting to hear because being an  

40:19

entrepreneur uh there’s freelance and then there’s  looking for a company and they’re so different  

40:26

um and I’d almost separate agency from company  sometimes agencies are like five many companies  

40:32

within you know like I think agency and  Company are separate yeah they definitely  

40:39

can be because especially startup right  so with moving from freelance to structure  

40:46

um and having a job what did you like about  having a job and what did you like about being  

40:52

a freelancer I think it goes back to that  structure um what I liked about agency so  

40:59

like agency life is very agency freelance life is  just very difficult right you’re you you’re like  

41:06

onboarding I mean when I was at chamber media I  was managing anywhere from like 50 to 60 brands at  

41:12

a time plus I was managing a team of AD buyers you  were managing 50 to 60 brands of like that my team  

41:18

also managed oh my gosh but like onboarding those  onboarding those people and dealing with people  

41:23

constantly like ad buyers having questions  because I also manage three or four ad buyers   at chamber media and then on top of that you  know the companies that they manage and then  

41:30

I manage my own small book as well and so it was  just like it my days were just like a meeting yeah  

41:36

and then I would have meetings with you know  the CMO and then like wow it was just like you  

41:41

know making sure that budgets are in line and  I I kind of started to find like as I started   to go more that route I started to not enjoy as  much what I originally enjoyed but enjoyed about  

41:50

marketing yeah was like the creative aspect like  I feel like there’s very data driven marketers   and there’s very creative driven marketers and  I was I’m very creative driven yeah data is also  

41:59

important but to me create like creativity  is just like that’s what I love yeah and I   love figuring out what works I love figuring out  like the the the the emotionally charged funnels  

42:09

that get consumers to buy a product or to become  you know a fan of your company or your brand or  

42:15

whatever it is that’s what I loved and then my job  really turned into and I love chamber media it’s   a great company and I literally loved everyone oh  he was Travis was part of the reason I wanted to  

42:26

get into digital marketing oh yeah I was working  in digital marketing and saw that he had started   chamber media and I thought I could do something  similar yeah he was a big inspiration to us and  

42:36

I know like they even had a four day work week we  have a four day work week oh really yeah so I mean  

42:41

well we can talk about maybe that in a second  but I’m curious so you literally you yourself  

42:47

were are you were you the communication piece and  your ad buyers weren’t talking to clients so you  

42:53

were you were the one communicating with 50 to 60  Brands no so we had like that was kind of more of   an account manager’s chamber media is like it was  like a mansion that appeared out of nowhere and  

43:03

there was like there was like no Foundation built  it was yeah they grew yeah and like when I came on  

43:11

when I first started chamber media I was like what  in the hell is going on like there was like there  

43:17

was not a lot of like because they just blew up so  fast they got a lot of like investment money and   like there were ad buyers with like 20 clients  and then the rad buyers was like none right  

43:27

interesting like and it was just like this there  was like there was like six managers like one   managed like two people another managed like five  like it was like so it’s just yeah and um they  

43:38

they ended up you know kind of like over hiring  and and stuff and but then by the time I left  

43:44

um our CMO um core I don’t know if you guys know  core iorg but um he really me and him and one of  

43:51

the other managers we really helped structure  the whole department like pretty well yeah   um where it was like there were very clear roles  the ad buyers like there was there was no like  

44:01

there’s no one really overworked and there was no  one really underworked but um sorry so to answer  

44:06

your question yeah yeah I uh like I managed my own  small book and then I also there’s just a lot of  

44:13

communicating with um my advice I manage clients  because they would have questions or they would  

44:18

want to be with the manager they were more Junior  ad buyers and they reported to you yeah yeah yeah   but they would still meet with the clients like  weekly or bi-weekly or monthly or whatever it  

44:27

was I think our sow was bi-weekly but yeah that’s  ours too yeah I think it’s pretty common but you  

44:33

get those clients are like I want to meet every  day and it’s like yeah yeah it’s like no uh do   you want me in your account every day maybe but we  can’t meet every day and have me do your account  

44:42

stuff every day yeah and so there were definitely  components I loved about it but once anyways and  

44:47

then going going in-house and working at getty  uh which is like a crypto decentralized uh wallet  

44:55

um it’s been it’s been really nice because now all  of a sudden it’s like I I’m back in kind of like  

45:00

the creativity Focus like I’m managing testing  out like tons of different funnels and tons of  

45:08

different social strategies and running ads on  trying it here then trying it there and then   the crypto space is even more complicated because  there’s all these like weird laws and regulations  

45:17

and and like Facebook rejects you and they don’t  know why and yeah it’s like you know it’s it’s the  

45:24

wild west yeah yeah that’s right so that’s been  a really um like fun and exciting Challenge and  

45:32

in a weird way even though the stakes are higher  like I am like less my mind space is more free  

45:38

well and I I think like yeah it’s it’s hard to  wrap your head around like knowing because I and  

45:43

I know we we have quite a few clients like at  scroll but I don’t talk to you all close to a  

45:50

little over like 200 of them but like having  just 50 60 like that you it’s like your soul  

45:57

responsibility it’s a lot that’s a lot of just  moving pieces then plus you’re managing a team  

46:02

this is also I think why like working at an agency  is so good for experience like if you want to be  

46:08

thrown into the fire and learn very quickly go  work at an agency for sure yeah the best yeah  

46:14

it’s definitely it’s not for the faint of heart  no like the best the best I think the best route  

46:20

for anyone who wants to go to marketing or ad  buying or or anything like is going to Agency   Route yeah for sure because you’ll just you you  are you know I’ve worked with like hundreds if  

46:30

not thousands of Brands by now and it’s because  of agency and freelance work and it’s cool because   with each of those Brands it’s like and almost  all of it was b2c that’s that’s like what I like  

46:40

I’m not I’m not a huge fan of B2B um I like the  aspect of like the consumer and like figuring  

46:46

out like their psychology yeah like that’s  more exciting to me than like B2B stuff but  

46:52

um yeah so I anyways I I do love that component  I love the whole strategic but when it starts  

46:58

becoming more of like I don’t want to say  like babysitting but just just trying to put  

47:04

out fires all day that’s like what I started  yeah it does get rough for sure it’s my job  

47:10

um yeah so how did you learn ad buying in the  first place you just picked it up on your own  

47:16

yeah I just taught myself did you we were reading  you have uh you had platform you were on upwork  

47:23

and Fiverr and stuff like that yeah I was on  Fiverr I was on like the Fiverr like for fiber  

47:29

Pro you have to like yeah so I was on that and  that was cool like I got some good clients I   still I still have clients I manage from that  wow but I stopped like promoting it for sure  

47:38

um and uh yeah so that was that was fun I still  I’m not I’m very picky now if I do take any  

47:45

freelance work because my main focus is on getting  Kitty and then and then you know here obviously   with with John Moore like that’s like off  something like one on the side but giddy obviously  

47:56

is my primary focus right now on helping them grow  and scale that well and it’s nice and I think now   like to really hone in and you let your creativity  shine and like a full-time role where you don’t  

48:09

maybe have as many bounds as you had at the agency  yeah exactly sure and I think it’s a very uh  

48:15

important thing for listeners to understand is the  path you took is one that is so simple for so many  

48:25

people that they could follow to reach success  in digital marketing yes you work really hard  

48:31

and try and learn uh a skill on your own right  like you went out there learned how to do media  

48:36

buying on your own created freelance profiles  to make money where most people would just sit  

48:42

there and say like here’s what I want to do and  then they don’t know what to do or how to get  

48:47

there where you just took action so take action  on your own uh create these freelance profiles  

48:54

and start to try and get customers it’ll lead to  you eventually being able to land a role like a  

49:00

director at a big agency where you’re managing ad  buyers and companies spending a million dollars  

49:06

a month yeah and then it’ll lead you to a place  where you could go and focus on a single product  

49:12

or a single service where you’re at your house  just a really good story that I think can direct  

49:18

a lot of people interested in digital marketing to  say hey you can figure it out on your own land a  

49:24

role where you manage a bunch of people to learn  and then land in a spot where you can really let  

49:30

your creativity shine and focus on one product at  a time for sure and I would also say like never   think that you like know what works yes because  it’s always changing like it does and you gotta  

49:42

you gotta try you have to actually try though and  that’s I think what it comes down to you got to   try a lot of stuff and you and then once you find  what works you can then stay in that lane and  

49:52

keep moving forward until it changes again yeah  one of my favorite quotes is on my LinkedIn is   stay hungry stay foolish I like that you guys have  heard that it was given by like a Steve Jobs when  

50:02

he was talking to a college I don’t know have you  guys seen that wait is that on your profile yeah   it is it says stay hungry stay foolish yeah okay  I actually saw that recently and I saw on your  

50:12

profile and I put it in the notes of my phone oh  really yeah I’m just now realizing that was your  

50:18

profile oh that’s funny but why do you love that  quote so much because I also found it I think it  

50:23

can mean different things for different people for  me it’s really about I I think I see people that   start to like get to a position and they’re like  I’m amazing like I’m the boss I know like I know  

50:33

it all like I’ve made millions of dollars and  I never want to be like that like stay hungry   stay flush to me is like like stay humble like  stay excited like I think I think my biggest  

50:43

um like superpowers are like I’m passionate  I’m obsessive which sometimes isn’t good   um and I’m very curious like like having those  things as an ad buyer and a marketer I think are  

50:53

so important because the biggest mistakes I’ve  seen marketers get into is when they think that   they have it figured out because you’ll never  have it figured out no going to a different  

51:01

company even if you’re even if you’re in-house at  the same company the strategy is going to change   like whether it’s a month a year like things  are always changing and you always want to  

51:09

be testing different things consistently  and staying curious staying passionate   um and so yeah just stay hungry stay foolish I  just I just love that so you think that’s been  

51:18

the biggest or yes what do you feel like it’s  been the biggest contributor to your success do  

51:23

you feel like it’s that Curiosity mindset do you  feel like it’s the exploring mindset or do you   feel like it’s just your sheer dedication to  like the craft of of learning and moving try  

51:35

to put in one thing I would say like passion  like I’m genuinely passionate about and when  

51:40

you’re genuinely passionate about the aspect of  figuring out like like what works and then when  

51:45

you finally see something that you came up with  works or a funnel that you built like generate you  

51:51

know a thousand like I well I remember one of the  funnels I built for a supplement company got over   a thousand percent ROI yeah which is like and they  they had not they had been in business for five  

52:01

years and not made any they had not made revenue  and the second month I took the second month after  

52:06

I took over we that we got those results and  I was just like seeing stuff like that is like   that is so rewarding yeah and so it gives you that  high it’s addicting yeah it’s 100 addicting it’s  

52:17

like that uh it’s the runner’s high or whatever  you know of marketing when you can actually like  

52:23

when you really when it really works and then  you you actually see it and then you see how  

52:29

the client reacts to it it’s everything yeah but  you’re never going to get to that point if you’re   like I haven’t figured out like this is what works  and then if it doesn’t work you’re like well this  

52:36

company’s crap like the the you know and it’s like  then you you just get prideful and you get stuck   in your ways and then you’re not going to progress  anywhere I think that’s such a good point because  

52:45

I think agencies tend to create a culture that  is bad around that where they’ll say this is our  

52:51

unique strategy and we only do it this way yeah  they’ll say this is how we do it or they’ll say  

52:57

um this customer sucks they were the worst they  weren’t helpful they were this and that and they   just blamed the customer for all these problems  yes and think we knew it all and they wouldn’t  

53:06

listen uh which I mean sometimes customers don’t  listen and it causes problems but the pride of an  

53:13

agency can create a downfall for them exactly I  think it’s one of the reasons I like chamber as   well is like I would I would interview people and  we purposely when we interviewed people the most  

53:22

important thing was hiring people that were like  like entrepreneurial driven like we hired a lot   of people that were doing freelance work before  or had kind of their own side hustles or things  

53:30

like that like we didn’t want to hire the same  person like five times like we wanted to hire   people with different ideas and different you  know strategies that they’ve used and like I  

53:40

feel like that type of group is the best yeah yeah  and so that was that was the key I remember higher  

53:47

I remember interviewing people that had tons of  experience um and then hiring people that maybe   had a year experience right and I would I would  pick people like that over someone with a lot of  

53:56

experience that first of of all had that drive  that entrepreneurial drive like like there was  

54:03

this girl interviewed and she I was like so what  are you like doing right now she’s like oh she’s   like I do marketing for this company she’s  like I I own this and I I do freelance and  

54:11

I was like hearing that stuff I’m like you are  a hustler and I feel like some companies look   at that and they’re like oh it’s a red flag yeah  and for for me and I and I and those are the best  

54:21

type of people to hire are the people who are just  like grinding getting it done not complaining and  

54:28

for me I think I think one of the benefits I had  coming into the space was I I’ve tried starting   three or four different companies and they’ve all  failed and so and so I feel like I feel like I I  

54:39

realize I’m better at making people money than  I’m better at making myself money and you know   what sometimes sometimes it is the case yeah you  know but I feel like that’s I you know I feel like  

54:50

working on agency I would have lots of AD buyers I  managed to kind of complain a lot but like oh this   they’re being so annoying and it’s like you got  to put yourself in their position like they are  

54:59

like a lot of these a lot of these startups and  stuff they are like this is all their own money   like every dollar they’re putting in that’s going  into ad buying is like their stuff their stuff and  

55:07

so I feel they’ll be feeding their kids this month  yeah and so I feel like coming from a perspective   that I was in where it was like I was in that spot  like it’s I I was able to like respect and relate  

55:16

to people and startups a lot more those are my  favorite types of companies are like startups  

55:21

um and people just like getting going and  people that really have a good purpose of   why like why they’re doing what they’re doing  yeah well I think you hit on a good point  

55:31

um you’re really good at making other people money  and coming into a system or hiring entrepreneurial  

55:37

people and a philosophy that we’ve kind of had  at scroll is that entrepreneurial mindset of  

55:43

working with being an entrepreneur from within and  sometimes that’s the most beneficial route to take  

55:49

and there’s uh people are very different in the  way they approach things if you hire someone who  

55:56

is full-blown entrepreneur and they’re just going  to leave in six months and steal all your ideas   that that’s one thing but if you can hire someone  who has an intranural mindset where they’re really  

56:07

dedicated to growing a company from within that’s  been our philosophy and being able to say hey we  

56:13

have a backbone and we want to be able to funnel  you as much money as we can as an entrepreneur  

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make it seem like it is your own company from  within by giving you uh autonomy to do what  

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you want and execute the way you want to do it  I love that and that’s and that’s when I when I   talk about kind of the restructured chamber media  that’s one thing that rcmo pushed a lot was like  

56:34

you own your own books and then we implemented  the bonus structure which helped a lot right  

56:39

um and then he’s motivating yeah yeah money  money is always motivating no matter what you   do it is yeah for sure and so yeah anyways I  just yeah I just I I love it I love the space  

56:50

so much I’m constantly learning um I like I said  I get bored easily so I feel like if you are a  

56:56

type person that gets bored easily or you are very  entrepreneurial driven I just feel like marketing   the whole creative component to it and it always  changing now with the Internet it’s just it never  

57:04

gets boring yeah for sure I never get bored with  with uh what I do ever I love that so I I think uh  

57:11

maybe one or two last questions to kind of wrap  this all up today I think one where do you see  

57:18

the your future going right now and and then the  second question is maybe where do you see digital  

57:25

marketing going in the future too because you’ve  been in the space for a couple years so I’d love   to see like where you think you’re gonna be and  where you think digital marketing is going to be  

57:34

um where I’m going to be man I don’t know I mean  I I right now I’m at I’m at getty and they’re  

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they’ve been around for about a year and a half  and I was super super excited when they brought   me on because they’re in such a good position  to just grow and scale and so I really hope  

57:48

I’m you know there for the foreseeable  future to see them to help them do that   um working on agency sometimes it’s people that  come to agencies come and go consistently and if  

57:57

you do really well for them sometimes they’re like  sweet thanks bye yeah and so sometimes it’s hard   to like put your name on something and be like I  grew this from this to this yeah so to be in-house  

58:06

now at a company like I that’s really my goal is  to be like I brought this company from making a   few thousand to millions of dollars and you know  getting all this backing and stuff like that so  

58:16

that’s one of my goals um also like starting  here uh Brotherhood Co with with John Moore  

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um I really want to push that and that’s really  been the first kind of business I’ve started where  

58:28

it hasn’t been like my purpose of starting  it was not Revenue driven it was it was   like yeah I was Purpose Driven it was  like I’m starting this and if it makes  

58:37

money like that would be cool but if it  doesn’t like I just want to spread like   awareness around mental health for sure and  get guys talking and get them communicating  

58:45

um and so yeah I would really like you know  obviously that to do well and succeed and  

58:50

um like I just don’t think I’ll ever stop trying  to make things or build businesses or helping  

58:56

people or anything like that I love that and then  what’s the future of AD buying geez I don’t know

59:05

I that’s that’s what I was talking about is like  I just feel like I don’t know I feel like that’s a   danger of trying to like predict where things  are going oh so well said yeah because it’s  

59:14

like that’s that’s I never know that’s one of the  biggest mistakes I think companies make is is they   they try to look at what everyone else is doing  and where the trends are going and nowadays by the  

59:22

time you do that you’re too late you’re too late  and it’s dumb to look at Nike and see what they’re  

59:28

doing and be like I’m gonna play that business  model it’s like Nike you can shoot a video of   someone like pooping on a toilet in a field and  still sell millions of dollars of [ __ ] right  

59:37

like it would yeah but it’s just because they’re  brand presence yeah I just love when it come to   comes on they’re like Nike’s my competitor and  it’s like Nike’s not your competitor yeah sorry  

59:46

yeah they’re you’re yeah but on their own category  the future that is a that’s a hard question I feel  

59:52

like the future of it is going to be very  unpredictable I feel like it’s always going   to be changing um like who knows what’s gonna  happen with the whole web 3 space like I have  

1:00:01

no idea where it’s all up and coming yeah I have  no way that I have no idea where that’s going to   go but I think that will play some part you know  there’s there’s already like decentralized and in  

1:00:09

the sandbox and like the whole Space there  where like marketing is starting to happen   and that’s totally new and exciting and I think  the most important thing is just like staying in  

1:00:20

touch with what is happening honestly like these  platforms are gonna get so good at ad buying for  

1:00:28

you that the only thing that’s going to help you  stand out is creative exactly like I I just feel   like everything’s starting to be automated like  any any like a grandma can go on Instagram and  

1:00:37

start like boosting posts and probably get some  sales yeah what’s going to set you apart is first  

1:00:42

of all like being able to communicate well with  people and being able to relate with people and   being charismatic right I feel like those are  huge underlooked traits of of marketers um and  

1:00:53

also yeah always just staying hungry and staying  foolish I guess yeah I love that oh he’s just  

1:00:59

trying to stay inspired and never thinking that  you know everything um yeah I think that that’s  

1:01:06

I really don’t know where the future is going but  I feel like as long as you’re staying humble and   trying to gain inspiration and not trying to steal  what other people are doing but using it more as  

1:01:15

inspiration and making your own journey is what’s  gonna set people apart I love that I think that  

1:01:21

that is a great way to format it because it’s  the concept of being a humble expert right and  

1:01:30

creating your own unique story so a humble expert  in this creative and Technical work of AD buying  

1:01:38

but also a unique story and a unique why for your  brand and vision that makes people interested yeah  

1:01:46

so that’s what marketing is about it’s all it’s  all about Building stories if you guys ever read   uh building a story brand also a really good  book yeah super good we’ve talked we’ve I think  

1:01:54

that’s the fourth or fifth time we’ve talked  about that book that’s probably my favorite  

1:02:00

marketing book yeah it’s such a good book and I  mean we originally built when we had you until yeah well this has been awesome I think that  uh this is great for listeners to understand  

1:02:17

that it’s important to be an expert but it’s  important to be humble as you grow to stay foolish  

1:02:25

um I think that this has been great for  people who struggle with mental health   and as you come out with here I think it’d be  awesome to even have you back on and talk yeah  

1:02:34

that would be awesome how that goes maybe dive  more into that have you and John we’ll have yeah

1:02:40

hopefully within the next month there should have  it it comes rolling a little bit so very cool  

1:02:47

and also the conversation of LinkedIn and its  purpose and how more people could get involved  

1:02:52

there and it’s a really easy opportunity for  people for sure yep awesome well thank you  

1:02:57

Justin like super appreciate it coming in and  uh and talking to us yeah thanks for having me   guys it’s been fun thanks it’s gone quick um  just to just to maybe finalize it where can  

1:03:08

people find you just LinkedIn that’s literally  the only place okay so find Justin yep that’s  

1:03:14

that’s really the only place I’m active so all  right cool okay well it’s been awesome thanks  

1:03:21

what’s our sign off Dan I don’t know we gotta  come up with that God’s speed is going to be  

1:03:26

the it’s going to be the side see on the other  side everybody oh yeah keep scrolling right I  

1:03:33

like it that’s good yeah welcome to distraction  City keep scrolling anyway thank you that’s it

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